Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Politics In General Is it too soon to be talking 2020?

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Are you asking me to repeat Post #313289 or are you insisting that I am a Hillary supporter?

The result of Republicans' smear campaign over the last 30 years. None of those folks left the line blank because Hillary was too Republican. They left it blank because they didn't want to vote for Crooked Hillary, courtesy of Trump and his fellow Republicans and their Russian allies. I witnessed that personally during the runup to the election: The internet forums were absolutely clogged with "crooked Hillary" posts, many obviously Russian.

If you're looking for a Hillary supporter, look no further cause I'm your guy! We'd be walkin' in high cotton if she'da won!

Well, I was a Bernie guy and so was Karen but you'd never know it to hear some folks speak. Thank God they don't in point of fact speak for me.

I pulled the H lever because I was terrified at the prospect of the Orange Menace.
Apparently I shall never be forgiven for doing so.

I never was. I've always said her unlikability factor was what did her in and gave us Trump.

What did it for me was the Kosovo Airport lie.

Yes Hillary Clinton was the most experienced and qualified candidate to be POTUS in 2016 - clearly that didn't matter to a lot us.

I knew Trump would be bad, but I never thought THIS bad. At least we don't have to hear the Conservative perpetual daily whining about how bad Hillary is at being POTUS.

America will recover when Trump is indicted and tried for his crimes.

No. I'm not.
What I'm saying is when you get people saying F#ck it! and leave the top line blank in larger numbers than what the candidate lost by in what was a formally reliable blue state, as many other reliably blue states were and you lost as well, you might have a problem? You might want to reflect on why?

Or not.

Russia didn't de-industrialize the upper midwest. Saying it was a long game by the Russians is so much Lib deflection. Libs are good at passing the buck. They've had decades of practice.

Despite all your meandering hate for Clinton and the Democrats, despite your claim that they lost because Clinton wasn't "likeable" enough. I will point out again that she won by 3 million votes.

And I will point out that Bernie is not particularly "likeable".

And if Bernie should happen to be on the ticket there are a lot of voters who would leave the top line blank because they won't vote for a Socialist. Just the facts.

There was nothing "flawed" about Clinton. She was a great candidate and would have been a great president. She's not a great orator, she's not a great campaigner, but she's friendly, affable and fun to be around. She carry's hot sauce in her purse in case it's not available. She enjoys a drink or three and lively conversation. She knows the names of every world leader and has met with most of them. She understands global politics and global trade.

This was an opportunity lost for leftist America on the same order as Al Gore's loss to Bush.

So were back to 'she'd be great to have a beer with'? More 'electability'?

O.K. That's a rational and a strategy I guess. Kinda got crushed by the results though.

I don't hate the Clintons any more than I hate any other class enemy and white collared criminals.

Meandering hate? Gimme a break. It's been meandering excuses over 2016 as far as I've read. No real early morning, clear eyed critique. Just a lot of huffing and puffing and 'yeah, but russia, racism, etc....'

Couldn't do $15.00/hr.
Took more than a quarter million for a Goldman boardroom speech.
Would have followed the same neoliberal policies that has been pursued by her type for decades now.

Those are valid criticisms.

You come back with "She carry's hot sauce in her purse.."

Uhhhh, O.K....

Can't argue with that.

You got me!

What deindustrialized the US? It damn sure wasn't a couple of politicians because lawmakers cannot legislate whether or not a greedy multinational corporation decides to manufacture here or not.
True, they can reward them for doing so, and even erect tax penalties for not doing so.

But in the end, trade agreements get decided by both Republicans and Democrats and the fact is, Republicans were better at being "on message" than the Democrats were.
And there is no binary political answer as to why greed is more powerful. It just is, to the point where it transcends politics.
Had Democrats opposed trade agreements with every fiber of their being, another "trade agreement" with an exploding cigar factor baked in would have gotten the job done anyway.

I do not argue that Democrats stayed loyal to the blue collar community. They didn't. They tossed the blue collar community overboard in favor of Wall Street elites and wealthy elites.
They did embrace neoliberalism.
And to a certain extent, evidenced by Joe Biden, they still do.

The Tea Party moved a lot of traditional Republicans into the unemployment line. I support whatever faction in my party can manage to push neoliberal Democrats into the same line. But in order for that to happen, my vote is needed. There is where we differ.

What deindustrialized the US? An idea did it, an idea first voiced in The Powell Memo, which was authored by a Nixon pick for the SCOTUS. Lewis Powell, a tobacco industry attorney and corporate free speech champion, authored "Attack on the American Free Enterprise System", an anti New Deal essay which put corporate America on notice that it had better begin fighting back against labor unions, consumer protection, even higher education itself.

It is a fool's errand to minimize the effect of The Powell Memo.
It provided fertile ground for an explosion of right wing think tanks. It was buttressed in numerous SCOTUS decisions like First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti and it energized the lobbyist industry at a level several orders of magnitude greater than The Declaration of Independence itself.
Indeed, The Powell Memo was a kind of "declaration of war" against the entire Left and the Left had nothing to counter it.

Blaming the Democratic Party for this sea change is like blaming Ford Motor Co exclusively for air pollution.

Moving the goalposts to suggest that Democrats blame Russia for our deindustrialization is a wild blunder which no one, even you, cannot back up. If there is a single Democratic politician suggesting such a thing, I'd like to see you drag them to the peanut gallery.

And like I said repeatedly, you offer no alternative except to stick with another four years of Trump.
No sale, buddy.