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[quote=Senator Hatrack]My comment referred to liberals because they are currently the most actively opposed to it. I know that there are conservatives who would like to get rid of too. Mrs. Clinton's loss in the Presidential election is what has motivated liberals to to push to get rid of it.
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
I challenge you on that. I think you said it because, in your view, "liberals" are inferior and dishonest. No need to apply a label to make the argument.
No, I do not think liberals are inferior and dishonest. There are dishonest conservatives and liberals. The only conservative that isn't dishonest is the author of this comment. I said liberal because they are not happy with the results of the election. Their dissatisfaction with the results has made the elimination of the Electoral College a bigger issue for them than it is for the others who would to get rid of it. I wasn't exactly thrilled with the results but the two realistic choices we had were not that great.
Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Show me a quote of Madison's that it was meant to protect against unqualified men from becoming our President.
I refer you to Federalist 68. The authorship is presumed to be Hamilton, with Madison an alternate possibility, but it is certain that he, at the time, approved of it. I say this based upon the report of the convention itself (although not a direct quote):
Quote
Mr. Madison: If it be a fundamental principle of free Govt. that the Legislative, Executive & Judiciary powers should be separately exercised, it is equally so that they be independently exercised. There is the same & perhaps greater reason why the Executive shd. be independent of the Legislature, than why the Judiciary should: A coalition of the two former powers would be more immediately & certainly dangerous to public liberty. It is essential then that the appointment of the Executive should either be drawn from some source, or held by some tenure, that will give him a free agency with regard to the Legislature. This could not be if he was to be appointable from time to time by the Legislature. It was not clear that an appointment in the 1st. instance even with an eligibility afterwards would not establish an improper connection between the two departments. Certain it was that the appointment would be attended with intrigues and contentions that ought not to be unnecessarily admitted. He was disposed for these reasons to refer the appointment to some other source. The people at large was in his opinion the fittest in itself. It would be as likely as any that could be devised to produce an Executive Magistrate of distinguished Character. The people generally could only know & vote for some Citizen whose merits had rendered him an object of general attention & esteem. There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections.
It helps to remember that The Federalist Papers were written to influence the people of NY to ratify our Constitution. Therefore, the best possible light is put on who will be our future elected officials. They were not intended to be, although they have become, explanations of how to interpret our Constitution. Our Founding Fathers were politicians and they were not above putting a little spin on what they wrote.
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Moreover, he expressed misgivings about the Electoral College himself in this Letter to George Hays in 1823. What bothered him most, though, was the advent and influence of "factions" (parties) that distorted the will of the people, and the use of "winner take all" apportionment of Electors that resulted.
That Madison had misgivings about what was done during hot summer when he and the rest of the members of the Constitutional Convention is to be expected. While the convention was in session the doors and windows were closed which made the room hotter. That 55 men were in a protracted sometimes heated political also made they endeavor difficult. Yet, despite those difficulties they wrote the greatest legal/political documents in human history. Is there nothing you have done in your life NW that you don't have misgivings about?
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity. I'm a conservative because I question authority. Conservative Revolutionary
