I made a delightful discovery this evening, an old post of Logtroll’s from many years ago, offering a bit of advice about debating a certain legendary Grecian Classical Liberal who once haunted these environs.

Quote
Oh, my, Spag! I fear that you are falling into He Who Shall Never Make A Point's trap. Your assumption about what the point is will always be wrong, and it will now be your fault for making it.

Do you know the old children's story about the tarbaby? Some will say that is a racist story, but I once had a job maintaining a couple of acres of old glass greenhouses where the glass was laid shingle-style bedded in tar, and I learned the truth of the tarbaby. I can assure you that it is impossible to handle tar without it getting smeared in the most unlikely places, and one cannot avoid getting smeared.

You are attempting to debate the tarbaby...

You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller