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Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
If the Democrat’s political machines are ancient history why are 45 out of 50 wards in Chicago predominately Democrat?
Because Chicago is predominantly Democrat? I don't see how this correlates to Democratic "political machines".


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Friend, your posts sometimes remind me of ricocheting bullets - they travel off on wild tangents and I have trouble following the trajectory.
Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
I'm afraid that kinda missed my point, actually. Goldwater and the others weren't "cured" - they were carriers. The infection did spread, and, like herpes, erupts occasionally, as it did with Reagan. Reagan was a vector, spreading the infection with false nostrums about "welfare queens" and "lifting boats", while pursuing really inhumane policies. We now know he shared the same racist beliefs Nixon did.
If you mean racism you are wrong! If you are talking about a “criminal mindset” that too is wrong. Yes, Nixon was a crook but his "criminal mindset" did not spread into the Republican Party any more than it did into entire American population. To think that “welfare queens” is racist is not true. The percentage of welfare recipients is 39.8% white and 38.8% blacks. That means the “welfare queens” are white women. The saying “A rising tide lifts all boats.” was first said by Pres. Kennedy. Was JFK a racist?
I'm not sure exactly how we got here, or what path we traveled to get here. I acknowledge that I did mention Reagan's racism - which was always apparent to me. He was a consummate huckster, too. But that was far from the point I was aiming at. Let me adjust the sights.

Yes, Nixon was a crook, but the point was that his behavior was symptomatic. Nor was it corrected by the actions of the other "carriers". The point of the "criminal mindset" is not, specifically criminality, but the attitude it represents: not caring about consequences.


More later. Got work to do.

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Originally Posted by perotista
Originally Posted by logtroll
Thanks, perotista. Sounds like a pretty sane set of principles that can play well in any discussion.

Seems like the main problem today with political discussions is the destructive use of lying, incivility, hyperbole, dishonesty, and intentional obtuseness. Clear those things away and we could likely solve some problems in this world.

RR is far better at honest discussion than any other political site I have visited, largely due to a set of rules designed for civility and honesty. I think the rules have slipped a bit in the past few years, partly due to the passing of some of our chief enforcers, and partly due to a general erosion of public discourse.

I appreciate your interest in discussing, and not just looking for a fight.

To butcher an old saying, "Books are for learnin', and the internet's for fightin'!"
Over the last 20-30 years it seems our election campaigns have become name calling and mud slinging. No room for new ideas, possible solutions to our problems or visions on where the candidates want to take our country. It's negative personal attack after negative personal attack.

I sick and tired of Republicans automatically opposing anything put forward by Democrats and vice versa, Democrat automatically opposing anything suggested by Republicans. The merits of the proposals or legislation are never considered anymore, just who proposed them.

This era of polarization and ultra high partisanship very well could be the beginning of our downfall. I've been interested in politics since watching the Democratic and Republican conventions on TV way back in 1956. I never seen the likes or the hateful politics of today before.
It was worse. In 1798 the Federalists passed the Alien and Sedition Acts which made it a crime to criticize anyone in the government, with the exception of VP Jefferson, who was a Democrat-Republican. (Even our Founding Fathers ignored the Constitution they wrote.) That law even got a member of Congress Timothy Lyons of Vermont put in jail. During the Wilson administration over 1,200 people went to jail for being "disloyal" to our government. Compared to Wilson's "Red Scare" the Communist witch hunt of Sen. McCarthy (R-WI) was tame. While the level of animosity between people of different political views has gotten worse lately it is nowhere near as bad as it once was.


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Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Protecting our country is one of the reasons why we have a government. Providing for anyone's healthcare is not one of the reasons we have a government.
On what do you base this assertion? (I acknowledge up front that this is a trap.) [Linked Image from images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com]
Why do you think the assertion is wrong?


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Originally Posted by logtroll
Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
If the Democrat’s political machines are ancient history why are 45 out of 50 wards in Chicago predominately Democrat?
Because Chicago is predominantly Democrat? I don't see how this correlates to Democratic "political machines".
The wards were run by Democratic political bosses. If your ward didn't vote for and contribute to the machine your ward didn't get services from the city. The snow wasn't plowed, the garbage wasn't picked up, the police & fire departments were slow to respond. Then to get a job with the city you had to vote for and contribute to the machine. If people do that for 70 years or so it becomes a habit. That is why 90% of the wards became and stayed Democrats.


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A link would be nice, then I could do some independent research.


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Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Friend, your posts sometimes remind me of ricocheting bullets - they travel off on wild tangents and I have trouble following the trajectory.
Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
I'm afraid that kinda missed my point, actually. Goldwater and the others weren't "cured" - they were carriers. The infection did spread, and, like herpes, erupts occasionally, as it did with Reagan. Reagan was a vector, spreading the infection with false nostrums about "welfare queens" and "lifting boats", while pursuing really inhumane policies. We now know he shared the same racist beliefs Nixon did.
If you mean racism you are wrong! If you are talking about a “criminal mindset” that too is wrong. Yes, Nixon was a crook but his "criminal mindset" did not spread into the Republican Party any more than it did into entire American population. To think that “welfare queens” is racist is not true. The percentage of welfare recipients is 39.8% white and 38.8% blacks. That means the “welfare queens” are white women. The saying “A rising tide lifts all boats.” was first said by Pres. Kennedy. Was JFK a racist?
I'm not sure exactly how we got here, or what path we traveled to get here. I acknowledge that I did mention Reagan's racism - which was always apparent to me. He was a consummate huckster, too. But that was far from the point I was aiming at. Let me adjust the sights.

Yes, Nixon was a crook, but the point was that his behavior was symptomatic. Nor was it corrected by the actions of the other "carriers". The point of the "criminal mindset" is not, specifically criminality, but the attitude it represents: not caring about consequences.


More later. Got work to do.
If Reagan was a racist it was only because he grew up in a time when the entire country was. But to call anyone who grew up before the 1960's civil rights movement a racist is to judge them by today's standards not the standards of their time. If you grew up before then, like Reagan, you NW are a racist. But then I am too. (I wonder long it will take for this to be taken out of context.)

The criminal mindset of which you speak is something every politician has regardless of which party they are a member of. They are because the only consequence they care about is not getting reelected. They just might "shining examples" of the ends, reelection, justifying the means, criminal behavior.


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Okay, I’m convinced, let’s all just say woe is we and give up.

Or do you have a constructive point?


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It's the Despair Quotient!
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Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
The wards were run by Democratic political bosses. If your ward didn't vote for and contribute to the machine your ward didn't get services from the city. The snow wasn't plowed, the garbage wasn't picked up, the police & fire departments were slow to respond. Then to get a job with the city you had to vote for and contribute to the machine. If people do that for 70 years or so it becomes a habit. That is why 90% of the wards became and stayed Democrats.

And you know what? Last time Karen and I went up to Chicago, we saw HELP WANTED and NOW HIRING signs ALL over the stinking place.
That was in 2015.



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Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
The wards were run by Democratic political bosses. If your ward didn't vote for and contribute to the machine your ward didn't get services from the city. The snow wasn't plowed, the garbage wasn't picked up, the police & fire departments were slow to respond. Then to get a job with the city you had to vote for and contribute to the machine. If people do that for 70 years or so it becomes a habit. That is why 90% of the wards became and stayed Democrats.

Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
And you know what? Last time Karen and I went up to Chicago, we saw HELP WANTED and NOW HIRING signs ALL over the stinking place.
That was in 2015.
I was talking about how Chicago was back in the 1940's not in 2015.


The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
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