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Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
If Reagan was a racist it was only because he grew up in a time when the entire country was. But to call anyone who grew up before the 1960's civil rights movement a racist is to judge them by today's standards not the standards of their time. If you grew up before then, like Reagan, you NW are a racist. But then I am too. (I wonder long it will take for this to be taken out of context.)

Though not as old as you, I do remember things from the 50s and the term racist was used back then and meant the same as it does today. One who looks down upon another, because of their color, ethnic or national origin and could even be applied to someone because of their religion.

I think the prior three are self-supporting, so I will only give an example of Racism based upon religion. The questions about President John F. Kennedy during the campaign and his time in office; his being a papist and the influence the Vatican would have over the US because Kennedy was Catholic.


Vote 2022!

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!
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I didn't get a chance to follow up fully (and still can't, yet), but here's more response
Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Apparently you have forgotten about the REAGAN DEMOCRATS.
Wiff! Some democrats voted for Reagan in 1984, it is true, but that has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with the Reagan-worship that pervades the current Republican party. I can't fathom how that is not obvious to you, unless it is willful blindness. Apples-zuchini.

Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Laissez faire is an economic theorem. A theorem that rejects government interventions because the preferred expectations of government interventions cannot achieved in realty.
I'm not sure you realize you directly contradicted your previous post, and confirmed my point entirely. I'll leave it at that, and thank you.

Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
That is a false analogy. When the US was using all of the concrete it did from 1901 – 2000 the decision of how and for what it was used was made mostly by the private sector. The decision of how and for what it the concrete is used for in China in the last three years was made by its government. Governments build large dams, like the Three Gorges Dam, the private sector doesn’t. Should China ever become a Capitalist country it probably will eat our lunch.
Again, thanks for proving my point explicitly, although I'm not sure you realized it, given your opening comment. The point was that governments can do big economic projects efficiently (which you conceded), some things that capitalist efforts won't/can't do.

I wish, my friend, you could just concede a point, rather than pretending it's still a fight.

More to come. Gotta run.

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Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Protecting our country is one of the reasons why we have a government. Providing for anyone's healthcare is not one of the reasons we have a government.
On what do you base this assertion? (I acknowledge up front that this is a trap.) [Linked Image from images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com]
Why do you think the assertion is wrong?
Because it is. Are you avoiding answering the question?


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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White Supremacy is not just racism. I'd even venture to say that racism might be just a small part of it.
For one reason or another the white skinned tribes of Europe became the most dominant on the world stage. Along the way they picked up Christianity which lent even more fervor to their race to world domination. They tended to be hoarders because the winters were cold and slackers would starve. Life was cruel to them, and they learned to be cruel right back. They were a patriarchal society and would brook no nonsense from women. Any sort of deviant from the norm, mentally or physically was considered defective. Everyone was a racist, a misogynistic, a homophobe, a religionist, a xenophobe, a culturist who saw anything outside the realm of white skinned European tribal customs and norms as something to be dominated and ruled over.

And that's where we find ourselves today. When all the tribes have come together, when all the cultures merged, when we have come together as a single civilization. White folks still wanna be boss.

White folks wanna f*cking lord it over everybody else. They wrote their rules into Christianity. Made Jesus into a white boy and insisted that white boys were dominant over anything and everything they could see. People of color were subjugated and enslaved. People of other religions converted or killed. Either you conform or you are shunned.

Yeah, racism is only one facet of the nasty thing. Racist white folks are taught to hate black people from an early age. Black people are taught to fear white folks at an early age. I was taught, back in the 50s to respect everyone. Even though I grew up in Apartheid America I was not a racist. Some people were, some weren't. Depended mostly on their parents.


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Reagan Worship.

Republicanism has become a religion to many these days, it's an all white, Bible thumping, flag wrapping embodiment of everything that is White Supremacy. Old Ronnie is one of its Saints. Ronald of Hollywood.

As big a fraud as ever lived. A saint to the fraud that is Republicanism.



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Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
[quote=Senator Hatrack]Protecting our country is one of the reasons why we have a government. Providing for anyone's healthcare is not one of the reasons we have a government.
On what do you base this assertion? (I acknowledge up front that this is a trap.) [Linked Image from images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com]
Why do you think the assertion is wrong?
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Because it is. Are you avoiding answering the question?
Since your "trap" is based on only part of my comment it is not the trap you think it is. Here is my entire comment.

Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Protecting our country is one of the reasons why we have a government. Providing for anyone's healthcare is not one of the reasons we have a government. Therefore, while they might use reason, logic, and facts to write the rules for healthcare they do not have the Constitutional authority to write them. Show where in our Constitution it specifically mentions healthcare.


You ignored, by deleting, the rest of what I said. So your question "trap" is BS. No one can show me where in our Constitution it specifically mentions healthcare. No one can because healthcare is not mentioned in our Constitution! This is not about any interpretation of the general welfare clause. It is about the idea that providing healthcare for anyone is not what the authors of our Constitution ever considered something our government is or would be authorized to do.


The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
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Pooh-Bah
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Does the Constitution specifically mention being the policeman of the world? Does it mention abortions? Does it mention nuclear weapons and other tools of mass destruction? Does it mention Capitalism and Free Markets?

At least healthcare fits nicely under "the General welfare".


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
I didn't get a chance to follow up fully (and still can't, yet), but here's more response[quote=Senator Hatrack]Apparently you have forgotten about the REAGAN DEMOCRATS.
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Wiff! Some democrats voted for Reagan in 1984, it is true, but that has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with the Reagan-worship that pervades the current Republican party. I can't fathom how that is not obvious to you, unless it is willful blindness. Apples-zuchini.
Yes, the Reagan Democrats do have something to do with the "Reagan worship" that you mistakenly see as dominating the entire GOP. The Reagan Democrats were part of the reason he won 49 of the 50 states. The respect for, not the worship of, Reagan exists because of his landslide victory and his skillful diplomacy that brought about the end of the Cold War and the fall of the USSR. Those are accomplishments that deserve respect. Worship? No. Respect? Yes!

Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Laissez faire is an economic theorem. A theorem that rejects government interventions because the preferred expectations of government interventions cannot achieved in realty.
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
I'm not sure you realize you directly contradicted your previous post, and confirmed my point entirely. I'll leave it at that, and thank you.
You seem to have a very strong tendency to see things as you want them to be not as they are. Here is the definition of laissez faire. Government intervention is rejected because the expected results cannot be achieved. The belief that "practical intelligence" is part of the laissez faire economic theorem is based on the erroneous idea that the free market can be controlled. There was no "practical intelligence" in the creation of personal computers. If "practical intelligence" had been there would not be the personal computers we have today. There wasn't a market for personal computers until they were created. "Practical intelligence" would not take the chance to make a product for which a market does not and may not exist.

Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
That is a false analogy. When the US was using all of the concrete it did from 1901 – 2000 the decision of how and for what it was used was made mostly by the private sector. The decision of how and for what it the concrete is used for in China in the last three years was made by its government. Governments build large dams, like the Three Gorges Dam, the private sector doesn’t. Should China ever become a Capitalist country it probably will eat our lunch.
Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
Again, thanks for proving my point explicitly, although I'm not sure you realized it, given your opening comment. The point was that governments can do big economic projects efficiently (which you conceded), some things that capitalist efforts won't/can't do.
China's efficiency in building the big projects that it has is due to its authoritarian government and the use of slave labor. Are you in favor of an authoritarian government like China's? I'm not. I'll take the inefficiency and freedom of the private sector over China's efficient authoritarian government.

Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
I wish, my friend, you could just concede a point, rather than pretending it's still a fight.

More to come. Gotta run.
I thought you got off your high horse. I guess not. But then supporters of authoritarian governments don't like it when someone argues with them.


The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
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Originally Posted by Greger
Reagan Worship.

Republicanism has become a religion to many these days, it's an all white, Bible thumping, flag wrapping embodiment of everything that is White Supremacy. Old Ronnie is one of its Saints. Ronald of Hollywood.

As big a fraud as ever lived. A saint to the fraud that is Republicanism.
Republicans are all white? White Supremacy? Elizabeth Heng Jennifer Carnahan


The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Quote
supporters of authoritarian governments don't like it when someone argues with them.
They certainly don't! The US Government is and has been an authoritarian government for a long time. We have the largest prison population in the history of the world.
Workers are paid a pittance and all benefits denied.
Our infrastructure is crumbling
Our water and air polluted
Deficit spending just topped a $Trillion Bucks
Wartime industries are booming even though it is a time of peace.
Workers are in debt up to their asses
Farmers are committing suicide
We have homeless beggers in our streets "alms for the poor? Alms for the poor."
And jackbooted thugs trample through them seeking the ones with brown skin.
Yes, Senator, DemonRats do it too! But at least some of them recognize the problem.

You are either on the side of the oppressed or on the side of the oppressor. There is no neutral ground.



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