Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues The Trump Administration The Impeachment of Donald trump

I do think you have something there. The impeachment of Bill Clinton was totally uncalled for. A censor would have done nicely. Quite a lot of Democrats were willing to go along with a censor. The GOP overplayed their hand, a majority of Americans were against impeaching Bill. In fact his approval rating rose from 59% to 65% during the whole impeachment process.

I don't think the Democrats hated G.W. They gave an average of a 36% approval rating for G.W.'s first term. Only a 10% average approval during his second term. Most Americans weren't all that keen on G.W. in his second term either. The Recession and being tired of the wars, time for a change if you weren't a Republican. I don't think most democrats hated G.W. they were just tired of his policies and the whole situation.

I do agree that after 2010, the whole Republican agenda was to stop anything and everything Obama. They weren't interested in accomplishing anything at all. whether or not one agreed with Obama's policies, he was a gentleman, a likable individual, a president who acted presidential. that is unless you were a hard core GOP'er.

Revenge by the Democrats on Trump. Certainly there is some of that. Maybe even a lot. I'd say the vast majority of democrats thought they had the election won. Heck, I thought so too. The presidency belong to them even before the first vote was cast. What a shock that must have been to wake up Wednesday morning after the election to find out Trump won. I was totally surprised, not shocked, unexpected for sure.

It's interesting the way the numbers stack up on this impeachment among independents, the less to non-partisans. Roughly you have a third who think this is nothing more than a partisan political vendetta, revenge to use your word against Trump for losing an election. Another third who think the hearings are all about truth, justice, bringing an end to a president who has committed crimes and abused power. Then a third who just don't care. Probably just sick and tired of hearing about Trump, Mueller, impeachment et.al.

The revenge is not for losing an election. It's for the way they treated Obama. It's for what they did with the supreme court nominee, it's for what they did with Obamacare. It's about 2010-2016. It's about the racism. It's about the nooses and the effigies hung and burned. It's about the crass things said about the president's wife and daughters. It's about making Obama a single term president being Mitch McConnell's foremost goal. It's about the birth certificate, and the secret Muslim stories.

This here is payback.

What Gregor said.

Frankly, I'm in favor of it.

There may be other charges in the Articles of Impeachment. It's just that this is a very clear instance of Bribery, and Bribery is one of the non-ambiguous reasons for impeachment mentioned in the constitution. But they may include other charges, like Perjury for lying to Mueller's written questions. Emoluments. Campaign fund violations. Money laundering (for trying to hide the bimbo payoffs). Tax evasion and bank fraud for evaluating assets very differently for taxes and loan applications. And who knows what else when they get his financial info and tax returns.

All of these charges are based on hard facts and documents. But then there all the philosophical high crimes about abuse of power, treason, trying to destroy the intelligence agencies and the military, etc. These are arguable. The hard ones listed previously are not.

Well the show is not over, the Judiciary Committee is set to begin hearings the fourth. And, we thought it was time to put away the popcorn. Oh, what a Christmas Season it is turning out to be...

Regardless of what is the cause for revenge, it is in full view of the public. This is perhaps the reason why many think impeachment is nothing more than a partisan political vendetta. Regardless of what Trump has done or not. Why 90% of all Americans minds are made up about this, set in stone, concrete, whatever. The other 10% are completely ignoring these hearings. Probably just sick and tied of it.

So far the hearings have been a wash in my view. They only harden the views those held of Trump prior to going into the hearings. More Democrats support impeachment and removal than when the hearings started, more Republicans oppose impeachment and removal than when the hearings began. Independents continue to be split right down the middle with roughly 40% for, 40% against and the rest not giving a darn one way or the other.

and your point is --> we should allow occupants of the WH do whatever the frak they want to because their supporters don't give a crap about lawlessness?

I don't get it.

I don't think you understand the public's mood. Roughly half see impeachment, removal as nothing more than a partisan political vendetta, revenge if you will was the word Gregory used. The other roughly half see this as an attempt to bring a president to justice for things he has done wrong. Broken the law, went against the constitution, etc.

The polarization, ultra high partisanship of today is front and centered. 90% of Democrats want Trump removed for cause, 90% of Republicans want him to stay and see nothing he has done wrong. You can't get more partisan than that. As I stated, those less to non-partisan's, independents are split. With independents also, the partisan split is there. Independents lean Democrats, want Trump gone, independents lean Republicans want him to stay.

Purely another example of the polarization of our politics today. In your eyes along with approximately 45% of other Americans, Trump needs to go for cause. In another 45% of Americans, Trump needs to stay because he has done nothing wrong, this whole impeachment hearings are nothing more than the Democratic Party partisan vendetta against Trump as the Democrats try to gain political advantage for 2020.

The other 10% don't gives an owl's hoot whether he goes or stays or what's happens during impeachment. The reality of the situation is these hearing hasn't changed anyone's minds. It has only harden prior beliefs. What else would you expect in the era of polarization of our politics and the ultra high partisanship that exists in this country today?

My view, unless both parties lose some of their ultra high partisanship, go back to being willing to compromise and begin once again to work together. We'll destroy ourselves from within due to internal politics. It's been nice while it lasted.

I'm sure you're sincere in your beliefs, but so too is the other fellow.

If about 50% of the voters don't think crime should be punished if the perpetrator is a member of your Party, then our criminal justice system is ruined: Zero convictions would ever happen again! If you can't convince the average person with scientific, eye-witness, or video recorded evidence of some fact, then we are lost as a Republic. So I doubt your analysis.

I think Trump has a hard core of loyalists who accept anything he says as Revealed Truth, no matter what evidence refutes it. But I bet they are less that 5% of the voters. Most people actually manage to function in the real world, so they have some ability to see reality as it is.

This explains why Trump has rallies where he endorses Republican candidates in Red States, and then they lose. 2018 happened. These recent races happened. Trump's endorsed candidates are almost all losing or winning by much lower than usual margins for their district or state.

PIA, I hate to say it but you're ignoring (at least a little bit) the FACT that plenty of countries have watched in horror AS their criminal justice system was ruined, plenty of countries have watched in horror as their nation of laws was steadily and then inexorably transformed into first a nation of men, then an absolute cult of personality.

And when one takes into account the larger number, one realizes that out of that larger number, it was only one third that "watched in horror".

Another third cheered and the remaining third sat on their keisters and watched TV or otherwise ignored what was happening until they were literally unable to ignore it any longer.

This is not a rare occurrence in human history.
It's our democracy that is the rare occurrence.