Originally Posted by Greger
Quote
Hillary stayed left during the general election campaign trying to placate Sanders supporters. Which in turn enabled Trump to win the independent vote and thus the White House.

If the majority of independent voters are hard right voters who will brook no movement towards the left then we are already f*cked.

At least those of us who think we seriously need to move a little to the left right now.

Everybody who welcomes fascism and authoritarianism should be pleased as punch that Trump will serve another four years. Neo Nazis, neo confederates, neocons and neolibs will all rejoice that corporate needs will forevermore come before the needs of the people.

Why ever would any independent ever vote against Trump? Look at the economy! Look at all the jobs! Look at the stock market for heaven's sake! Look how great everybody is doing right now! A move to the left would surely destroy us and independent voters saw that in 2016 and will see it again this time around.

They saved us from Hillary and they will save us from that left wing nutjob Biden.

Pero...I think you've gotten things wrong on this. Sanders might have beaten Trump handily. Clinton didn't "lose" because she was too far left...she won by 2.65 million votes in case you had forgotten. It was a wicked twist with regards to the location of a few of those voters which installed Trump as our ruler.

Some say it's because she didn't campaign enough in certain areas that cost her the race. That she read the polls and arrogantly chose not to go there because they were rightfully hers. Comey's announcement alone might or might not make the difference. Misogyny among male voters could have done it.

Your claim that it was because she went an nth of a degree too far ideologically is why she lost the race just don't look like enough to hang your hat on.
I stand by the reasons I gave for Hillary's loss. She should have won by 10 points. She lost the three key states of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin because independents voted against her. Democrats outnumbered Republicans in all three. Independents in Michigan went for Trump 52-35 over Hillary off setting the 40-31 Democratic advantage in party identification. Trump won independents 50-40 in Wisconsin and 48-41 in Pennsylvania.

It's true that 62% of male voters had an unfavorable view of Hillary vs. 52% of female voters. Still a majority of both genders viewed her unfavorably. To be fair, 57% of male voters viewed trump unfavorably, not much difference in how males saw the two candidates. 64% of females saw trump unfavorably which is a ten point difference between the two candidates.

Now I don't have the breakdown between male and female for past election, but I do for the two major party candidates. 2016 was an election where the majority of Americans didn't want neither candidate.

Favorable/unfavorable views.
2016 Hillary Clinton 38/56 favorable/unfavorable, Trump 36/60 favorable/unfavorable
2012 Obama 62/37 favorable/unfavorable, Romney 55/43 favorable/unfavorable
2008 Obama 62/35 favorable/unfavorable, McCain 60/35 favorable/unfavorable
2004 Bush 61/39 favorable/unfavorable, Kerry 57/40 favorable/unfavorable
2000 Bush 58/38 favorable/unfavorable, Gore 55/45 favorable/unfavorable and so on on back.

Notice the huge difference between Hillary and Trump and previous major party candidates. Neither was liked, neither was wanted. Bum candidates chosen by both major parties.

We know the GOP will have their bum candidate running in 2020, what about the democrats? Did they learn not to run a bum candidate from 2016 or not? We'll see.

2016 I term as the anti election. Where most folks voted for the lesser of two evils, the least worst candidate or as I like to put, for the candidate they wanted to lose the least. Not win, but lose the least. A majority of Americans wanted Hillary to lose, a majority of Americans wanted Trump to lose.

For me, 2016 was a good news, bad news election. The good news, Clinton lost, the bad news Trump won. I was one of 9 million voters who voted against both.

It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.