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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,022 Likes: 63
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,022 Likes: 63 |
Beginning numbers via party on impeachment and removal when the official hearings started in the house compared to today, 27 Dec 2018. Make of them what you will. Being Democrats are hard core pro impeachment and removal while Republicans are the same against, what interest me is independents. The less to non-partisans, the non-affiliated, swing voters, quite a lot in neither the pro nor the anti-Trump camps. Interesting that independents started out 39-38 against, as of today, they are 48-42 against. Impeachment hearings began on 13 Nov 2019 vs. 27 Dec 2019 Trump’s approval 13 Nov 43.9%, 27 Dec 44.5% https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html13 Nov Democrats for impeachment and removal 84%, 27 Dec Democrats for impeachment and removal 83%. 13 Nov Republicans for impeachment and removal 12%, 27 Dec Republicans for impeachment and removal 9%. 13 Nov Independents for impeachment and removal 38%, 27 Dec Independents for impeachment and removal 42%. 13 Nov Democrats against impeachment and removal 6%, 27 Dec Democrats against impeachment and removal 11%. 13 Nov Republicans against impeachment and removal 80%, 27 Dec Republicans against impeachment and removal 88%. 13 Nov Independents against impeachment and removal 39%, 27 Dec Independents against impeachment and removal 48%. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133 |
I see you used the past 3 week average of 1.1% 'against' instead of the past 5 day average of 4.5% 'for'. I am noticing a shift 'for' since Pelosi's gavel came down.
538, which does a more sophisticated rolling estimate, shows 1.8% and growing for impeachment and removal, which closely aligns with the figure for Independents.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133 |
During the impeachment hearings Trump was definitely making significant gains, which could be seen in the polling as there was a 3 week period to follow and examine. I attribute that to the Salesman Effect on the average voter, who I regard as woefully ignorant on most issues and highly susceptible to the tricks and techniques of the salesman class - appeals to emotion, hyperbole, false equivalencies, loud voices, sowing seeds of doubt, etc.
But when Pelosi hit the block of wood with her mallet, all of the dust storm of the hearings wafted away, leaving only the simple fact that Donald Trump is now an impeached president. That's an easy fact to state, and a difficult one to obfuscate with lies.
Polls are a curious thing in that they are never current - there is a delay of generally about a week between what they are polling and what is reality now. The latest round are a bit more out of phase because of the Christmas holiday. Next week we shall see where Trump (and the GOP) stands post impeachment.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,110 Likes: 136
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,110 Likes: 136 |
I personally don't care if he goes or stays. I am not sure how to interpret that statement. Are you saying it doesn't matter who occupies the WH ... all is good? Yes as a human person he is despicable and disgusting .... but for you that is OK for an occupant of the WH? His domestic policies are geared to enhance his personal view of himself i.e. he is the greatest [fill in the blank] ... and that is OK with you? So what would inspire you in an occupant of the WH?
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,022 Likes: 63
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,022 Likes: 63 |
I personally don't care if he goes or stays. I am not sure how to interpret that statement. Are you saying it doesn't matter who occupies the WH ... all is good? Yes as a human person he is despicable and disgusting .... but for you that is OK for an occupant of the WH? His domestic policies are geared to enhance his personal view of himself i.e. he is the greatest [fill in the blank] ... and that is OK with you? So what would inspire you in an occupant of the WH? I was born right after WWII and was quite satisfied with Truman through Obama. Actually I was too young to remember anything about Truman except what I read in the history books. Trump, like any other president in my lifetime he has done some things I supported and some I opposed. The R or the D has meant little to me. Not like most folks on this site where the R and or the D means everything. What it means is I really dislike Trump's persona. His very unpresidential behavior, his schoolyard bullying along with his name calling. Now I don't think disliking the man means I'm in favor of impeachment and removal. I think that should be decided at the ballot box and not by the opposing party for purely political reasons. If he goes, fine. Perhaps we have someone who actually promotes the dignity the office of the president deserves. If he stays, there's always November 2020. Fact is I'm not comfortable with Trump as president. I was very comfortable with every other president in my lifetime. I wouldn't have been comfortable with Hillary Clinton either. There's a couple of Democratic candidates I wouldn't be comfortable with either with come Nov 2020. Not being a hard core pro or anti Trumper, I know is hard for probably 99% of those on this site to understand. Not being a party animal is hard for those folks here to understand. My loyalty is to the country, not to either major party. My eyes, heart, feelings aren't tainted by either deep red or deep blue colored glasses. I support individuals, I support certain issues and policies and oppose others. But my support isn't determined by the R and or the D. My support is determine by what I think is best for the country. This polarization and mega high partisanship era of politics we have entered into certainly is very bad and harmful to this country. The problem is each party thinks the other is the cause and they're completely innocent when it's been both parties leading this nation into the divisiveness and polarization for the last 20-30 years. There you have it.
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 608
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 608 |
I personally don't care if he goes or stays. I am not sure how to interpret that statement. Are you saying it doesn't matter who occupies the WH ... all is good? Yes as a human person he is despicable and disgusting .... but for you that is OK for an occupant of the WH? His domestic policies are geared to enhance his personal view of himself i.e. he is the greatest [fill in the blank] ... and that is OK with you? So what would inspire you in an occupant of the WH? I was born right after WWII and was quite satisfied with Truman through Obama. Actually I was too young to remember anything about Truman except what I read in the history books. Trump, like any other president in my lifetime he has done some things I supported and some I opposed. The R or the D has meant little to me. Not like most folks on this site where the R and or the D means everything. What it means is I really dislike Trump's persona. His very unpresidential behavior, his schoolyard bullying along with his name calling. Now I don't think disliking the man means I'm in favor of impeachment and removal. I think that should be decided at the ballot box and not by the opposing party for purely political reasons. If he goes, fine. Perhaps we have someone who actually promotes the dignity the office of the president deserves. If he stays, there's always November 2020. Fact is I'm not comfortable with Trump as president. I was very comfortable with every other president in my lifetime. I wouldn't have been comfortable with Hillary Clinton either. There's a couple of Democratic candidates I wouldn't be comfortable with either with come Nov 2020. Not being a hard core pro or anti Trumper, I know is hard for probably 99% of those on this site to understand. Not being a party animal is hard for those folks here to understand. My loyalty is to the country, not to either major party. My eyes, heart, feelings aren't tainted by either deep red or deep blue colored glasses. I support individuals, I support certain issues and policies and oppose others. But my support isn't determined by the R and or the D. My support is determine by what I think is best for the country. This polarization and mega high partisanship era of politics we have entered into certainly is very bad and harmful to this country. The problem is each party thinks the other is the cause and they're completely innocent when it's been both parties leading this nation into the divisiveness and polarization for the last 20-30 years. There you have it. We should have clapped.
What can we do to help you stop screaming?
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
I think a lot of the "partisan" people here are being mischaracterized. Personally, I have no underlying loyalty to the Democratic Party. I am not a member, and I almost never make monetary contributions. What I am is all about the issues and policies. They (or rather the Republicans evil, insane, or unworkable policies) drive me to support the Democrats. Affection for the Party does not affect how I feel about the issues. For instance, I happen to agree completely with George Will, a very well known Conservative pundit and columnist in this story: George Will Has A Stark Warning For Every Republican In 13 months, all congressional Republicans who have not defended Congress by exercising ‘the constitutional rights of the place’ should be defeated It's not about partisanship. It's about love for America. Another good example, is that most of us supported Romney's insurance plan in Massachusetts when he signed it into law. It wasn't perfect, but it was a great first pass at an issue that had been floating around for decades Also, this I find quite unAmerican: Now I don't think disliking the man means I'm in favor of impeachment and removal. I think that should be decided at the ballot box and not by the opposing party for purely political reasons. The US Constitution says nothing about impeachable offenses waiting for the next election. That's NOT impeachment. And yes, there were a few Democrats who introduced impeachment bills based on the Emoluments Clause early in Trump's term. (Which by the way, are enumerated grounds for impeachment.) But the Speaker and the vast majority of Democratic Reps ignored those. Why would you think they were all against impeachment then and for it now, if partisanship drove this? It's simple: It was Trump's criminal attempt to interfere with the integrity of our elections, not any change in the Democrats.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133 |
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433 Likes: 373 |
The slow, polite, golf kind, or the snarky wrist-twisting Nancy Pelosi kind?  
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433 Likes: 373 |
...if you have to threaten your caucus with ‘You have a hell of a lot to lose’ if you don't stick with Trump, you already lost.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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