Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Politics In General Concerning prediction for the COVID-19 pandemic

Yes, I'd say there were 10-15 other reasons why Hillary lost than just Sanders supporters. All had to come together for her to lose which she did. I mention a few, but there are many more. 2016 was determined by the actions, choices and decisions made by both major parties.

But there were a couple of polls in Feb 2016 which showed that 56% of all Americans wanted the Democrats to nominate someone other than Hillary Clinton. The fact the democrats didn't listen to all of America in my opinion is on them. Now the democrats have the right to choose their own candidate, no doubt about that. But there were plenty of warning signs out there early about the vulnerability of a Hillary candidacy. I personally believe the two major parties nominate the two worst candidates possible.

Hillary was actually chosen as the democrat's nominee before the 2012 election in a secret meeting between Obama, Bill and Hillary. Then the silent word went out so the DNC and state democratic party leaders fixed the primaries in her favor. I don't blame Sanders supporters for being angry. For either staying home and not voting or voting third party against both, even some voting for Trump.

Isn't it strange you would have only 4 candidates announce to compete for an open presidency? Hillary, Sanders, O'Malley and Webb. My candidate, Jim Webb didn't even bother to campaign, he knew the fix was in. O'Malley's campaign was one of him going around telling the primary voters he wanted to be their second choice. Basically telling voters not to vote for him, but to vote for Hillary. what kind of candidate is that?

When you figure 15 or so candidates on the GOP side in 2016, when you had 10 for the GOP nomination fight in 2012 and another 9 in 2008, 10 on the Democratic side in 2008, that should tell you something. I'm not counting those that withdrew prior to the beginning of the primaries.

Sanders supporters were one of several reasons Hillary lost, but I don't blame them at all. Hillary herself caused her loss. Independents voting for Trump was in my opinion the key factor. They just disliked Hillary a lot more than hey disliked Trump. Again many reasons for that, but 70% of independents disliked Hillary, 57% disliked Trump, in the end Trump won their vote because he was less disliked, the candidate they wanted to lose the least, not win, but lose the least.

Perhaps the democrats should have listen to America as a whole, all of America. Sure, all of America doesn't decide who will be the nominees, but all of America decides who will win in November. The warnings were out there, just ignored or the Democrats thought they could nominate anyone and still win. Perhaps they learned their lesson, the lesson is candidates matter. The Democrats came up with very good congressional candidates in 2018 and won. They have several excellent candidates for several currently held senate seats that could win in deep red or swing states. Good for them.

What fix? A fix would be stuffing ballot boxes with fake votes for a candidate, miscounting votes in favor of a candidate, etc. Nothing of this happened. Articulations between party elders to get a preferred candidate is not a "fix", it is the regular political process.

Now the Bernie or Bust crowd is already whining and complaining that there was consolidation before Super Tuesday and call it a fix. Look, Biden was already ahead of Sanders in popular vote totals after South Carolina and before Super Tuesday, before any consolidations. Pete and Amy dropped out, they would have, sooner or later, probably the day after Super Tuesday. They dropped out a couple of days earlier, and it's normal political process. Consolidation always happens. Bernie never had the majority if you added all moderate voters, so the moderates consolidated and beat him. Normal political process, no conspiracy necessary, no fix.

Why is it strange that a party supports one of their own versus an independent senator who spent his campaign criticizing the party leadership? An opportunistic outsider?

Sanders lost by 3.7 million votes in the 2016 primaries, and no DNC shenanigans can account for such a HUGE loss. That's what his supporters don't want to acknowledge. This was best proven in the 2020 primaries when Sanders was cut to his actual size, without the benefit of the anti-Hillary vote. Yes, Hillary had high rejection, but still, the vast majority of Dems and Dem-leaning primary voters wanted her over Sanders, just like Sanders is not wanted now. Bad choice? Maybe, but that's democracy.

Yes, dozens of factors for her loss... and she is the biggest culprit... but like I said with may analogy of a conspiracy to commit murder where all conspirators are equally guilty and there would be no murder if one of them went missing, every single one of them counts, given the razor-thin Trump victory (while losing the popular vote by almost 3 million votes). So, yes, I blame Bernie or Bust immature voters, just like I blame all the other factors.

You type like you work for the Trump administration i.e. refuse to acknowledge the gorilla in the room. Just think, had you said, yes, that was a contributing factor of major importance since it was just 11 days before the vote and sent her polling into a death spiral, I would have no question about your analysis.

Does anyone wonder why reporters continue to hound Mr trump with questions??? because he can't accept the reality in front of him. Should he have ever said yes I take responsibility or yes that really happened, there is no follow up question.

Are you talking to me? What are you talking about? It would be helpful to quote the post you're responding to. If you are talking to me, I *did* list James Comey's letter as one of the major factors. So we are in agreement. That in this post I chose to highlight the effect of the Bernie or Bust crowd, it doesn't mean that I think it was more determinant than the Comey's letter. I've called Comey an idiot and a major factor in Trump's victory many times, in other forums. Just, now, I'm talking about another factor, Bernie or Bust.

If you are talking to me, I don't see where I'd be sounding like working for the Trump campaign. I think my dislike of Trump has been thoroughly demonstrated by my posting.

EDITED - Oops, now I realize that indeed you weren't talking to me, but to Perotist. I've realized now the small print right after the post subject, which shows whom the person is responding to even when there is no quote. Sorry, I'm new here and I'm still not used to this forum software.

Well, now we have a clue as to what it might cost to save your life if you need Remdesivir.

Got an extra 4500 dollars you can spare?
If not...sorry...sucks to be you, I guess!

I suppose Obama letting it be known to the DNC and the Democratic State Party leaders that he wanted Hillary as their nominee in 2016 is normal politics. It was done quietly. It also kept a good many candidates from declaring their intentions to run for the presidency. I suppose it is normal politics when a sitting president lets everyone know who he wants to be the party nominee. Normal politics, in a way. A fix, that could fall into that category as most leaders will try to please the sitting president. No, it wasn't ballot stuffing. But it was at a minimum putting the strong arm on the party's leadership and the DNC.

It was beginning to look like more a coronation than a primary. Hence letting an independent who remained an independent to enter the fray without switching party labels. Webb and O'Malley weren't going to attract any voters. I don't think anyone realized Sanders would give such a good showing, an energetic one, a real attempt to win. Letting him run was just for show, so no one could say Hillary had been crowned.

So having a sitting president letting those in charge know he wants Hillary isn't really a fix. But his subordinates, the party leaders under Obama will try to please him. If you know your boss wants A, most will try to please him and give him A. Not all, but most. I think this really shows in the super delegates, Out of 712 super delegates, Sanders received 48 to Hillary's 664. Party loyalty, perhaps. But it probably had more to do with knowing Obama wanted Hillary, not Sanders. So let's please the boss.

Perhaps this doesn't make the legal definition of a fix, but it the next best thing.

You may just be right on the war thing. He is certainly capable of such a stupidity if he thinks it will get him re-elected. I can remember when the Democrats seemed to be the party of war - no more, the Republicans have proudly embraced it now.

That's "an influential drug price watchdog" not Gilead saying so.

Me, I do have $4500 to spare. But I doubt that this will be the price. There will be a negotiation. Tax payer's money went into the research grant.

Taxpayer money has gone into development of a lot of drugs and other items, we still pay through the nose for them.

No, for me, it is the normal political process. A president is the leader of a ruling party, especially a beloved one like Barack Obama, so, he made his preference known, and people followed him. It has happened over and over and over and over and over and over in all democracies in the world (including ours). Only Bernie Bros. whine about it. Everywhere else, it's the normal political process. Politics is the game of power, influence, coalitions, endorsements, support, and the earning and spending of political capital. Barack earned a lot of political capital, and he spent it in making an indication of his preferred candidate. Why shouldn't he? There is nothing abnormal about it; and no, it's no fix.

Then, you submit it to the voters. Well, the voters did pick her, with no trace of electoral fraud. The most that happened was some email exchanges between DNC operatives that never amounted to much. One low-level operative suggested by email that the Hillary campaign should use against Bernie the fact that he is a Jew. Hillary's campaign never accepted the suggestion. Donna Brazile fed Hillary a couple of CNN debate questions. Disgraceful but rather a big deal. From this, Bernie Bros. go to OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING THE FIX IS IN THE NOMINATION WAS STOLEN FROM BERNIE!!! They should grow up and understand a bit more what Politics is about.

Have you realized that she would have won the nomination anyway, WITHOUT a single superdelegate? She won 34 contests and beat Sanders by 3.7 million votes. She got more than what was needed in regular pledged delegates, no superdelegates needed. That is a FACT that Bernie Bros. like to ignore. They say the nomination was stolen from Sanders. No, it wasn't, because it was never his to start with. He never had the votes. For something to be stolen from you, you have to own it first. Hillary had the votes, and beat him.

Sanders managed to lose to the second most rejected candidate in the history of presidential nominations (second only to Trump, and Hillary even managed to lose to Trump).

Then in 2020 without the anti-Hillary vote, we saw what's the true dimension of the Sanders movement: small. Insufficient.

Sanders without Hillary in the ballot went from 86% in his own state of Vermont to barely more than 50% (50.something). He lost badly in neighboring states, and even when he won, it was with a smaller total than in 2016, and it was inferior to the sum of the votes granted to his moderate opponents, and it wasn't a majority (except for Vermont, the tiniest of majorities). Elsewhere, Sanders' popular voting totals dropped dramatically from 2016 to 2020. There were states in which he had won ALL congressional districts in 2016, and then he lost ALL congressional districts in 2020, when he no longer had the anti-Hillary vote.

Again, Bernie or Bust types are whining... but they couldn't even get their lazy behinds off the videogame couch to go vote, as the youth participation for Sanders in 2020 was smaller than in 2016.

If you want a democratic voting revolution, you need to go vote. If you don't go vote, you need to shut up and stop complaining. Bernie Bros. think the fault of Bernie not being the nominee is the fault of everybody else (the DNC, the evil establishment, Wall Street, stupid and ignorant voters, etc., etc.) except the fault of themselves (who didn't even bother to come in and vote) and the fault of their non-charismatic, 2-trick pony (M4A, Wall Street), aloof, unrealistic (pies-in-the-sky) whining candidate whose policies were rejected by the vast majority of Dem and Dem-leaning primary popular voters.

I'm not a Hillary Clinton fan. I did not vote for her in the 2008 primaries (voted for Obama). And I did vote for Bernie Sanders in the 2020 primaries (when my state early-voted before Super Tuesday, I didn't think Biden had a chance, so I voted for the candidate I thought had the best chance at beating Trump, and at the time I thought that that candidate by default was Bernie; now I know it wasn't, once he failed to stimulate any turnout on Super Tuesday; which Biden did).

But I'm mature enough to move on when the candidate I prefer doesn't win. I then go to the next best thing or the lesser of two evils. Which is why even though I voted for Sanders in the primaries, I'll definitely vote for Biden in November.

That Bernie or Bust people couldn't make this move is proof of political inexperience and naivete. Hillary Clinton's platform was a whooping 95% similar to Bernie Sanders', in 2016. Trump's platform was 0% similar to Bernie's. Still, spiteful because their candidate LOST (it wasn't stolen from him; he simply lost because he didn't have enough popular votes), they abandon the candidate with 95% of similar platform, who wouldn't have nominated Trump's 252 conservative federal judges and 2 justices, and go for the guy whose platform is 0% similar to their idol's. Smart! [NOT!]

Bunch of spoiled brats. They got us Trump. There is a saying that every people have the president they deserve. I guess it applies to the Bernie or Bust crowd. It's unfortunate that the damage is not just to them, but to all of us.

Again, sure, there were 10 or 15 other factors and I'm perfectly aware of them, and just as angry at the other 9 or 14 factors. But yes, Bernie or Bust people were one of the essential factors, as proven by the Newsweek article, and so, yes, they are to blame.

I'm not mad at Bernie Sanders himself (better proof, I voted for him). He had the right to run. But once he lost (twice, now), people need to move on, and yes, I *am* angry at the whiny, spoiled, lazy, naive Bernie or Bust types who couldn't even bother voting in expressive numbers (videogames and smoking pot are more attractive than waiting 4 hours to vote in a precinct) and now say they won't vote against Trump in November.

Well, again, they will get 4 more years of the president they deserve, who will happily crush all the dreams of their generation.