Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Politics In General Is it too soon to be talking 2020?

Russia!
Russia!
Russia!

Wasn’t that the last explanation Libs seized on for the last 3 1/2 years? You think their not out shopping excuses as we type?

They’re already diminishing expectations becuz Republicans! They play to lose. They suppress ideas or options.

Yeah, it helps to have charisma to move product. You still need to have a product to sell. 2016- ‘America’s already great!’
2020- ‘nothing will fundamentally change’

At least Trump has something to sell. It helps. Democrats aren’t selling anyone anything by design.

Are you saying that Trump and the Reeps’ total lack of a platform is more to sell than Biden and the Dems’ platform?

I think the selling is more of a distinguishing feature than the platforms.

What was the Biden platform cept a restoration of norms and values people are fed up with?

Nothing will change... C’mon man!

I agree that Trump was pretty sloppy as an incumbent during a pandemic killing thousands, displacing millions of jobs, Looming homelessness, etc., The fact that it was this close says volumes about the Democratic Party as largely ineffectual and out of touch and only wants to talk to one another.

Joe Biden’s a creep and corporate schill that was favored by party insiders. People are sick of party insiders. Especially the openly corrupt types like Biden. Democrats proved Trumps criticism of themselves and the system and allowed him to run as an outsider again to his base.

In short, Democrats and their embrace of neoliberalism has left it unable to mount a strong opposition to a populist right alternative to it. All they can do is limit available options so that they are the default alternative to the neofascism that’s growing as a reaction to their decades of neoliberal policies.

Thinking the problems of Democrats to mount an opposition to Trumps right populist messaging as a lack of charisma is, IMO, more blame shifting away from the deep structural flaws of their party and their own inability to recognize it.

Sorry, man. I really don't know what you are hoping to accomplish with your approach to talking about this stuff. I agree that the Dems need a lot of work. What do you suggest as a strategy?

It is true, I believe, even though I find it disgusting, that crass salesmanship (aka "charisma") plays a major role in winning elections. Hot political salesmen are rarely selling good policy, though. And most voters are not geniuses at making the best choices. Such is life.

I don't know how humans survive as a species. My bet is that we won't.

Yes I would believe that if it were true or valid, but that is not the reality of a Trump supporter. They believe the message has been implemented, everything you can display as evidence to the contrary, they would simply say ... liberal fake news.

You can't win talking to these folks.

O and the other thing about saturation .... that was one of the things I mentioned 4 years ago, whether Mr Trump would consume the whole of media reporting. I think it was his plan (if a narcissist has a plan) to get as many column inches as possible as a metric for quantifying how much people love him. I'll let you be the judge whether he was successful in getting the inches.

Beg to disagree

'I Mostly Listen': Offering Bluepri...ts Powerful GOP Incumbent in Rural Maine

More detail about the house race losses will keep coming in but one thing that was noticed was how the losers did not support Medicare for all. Not saying it’s a magic bullet for victory just one bit of information.

Somewhere in these 200+ pages I’ve given suggestions repeatedly. I’m over that now as I believe it’s a fools errand.
You wanna believe it all comes down to charisma? Be my guest. I just wanted to pushback on the idea that all it will take to win is a crappy politics wrapped in a shiny wrapper like George Clooney.
Democrats got their win didn’t they? What were you hoping for? Wasn’t that the point of the last 4 years? To be rid of Trump? Isn’t that all that liberals went on about and the party spent its time trying to accomplish thru impeachment hearings and obsessing with his scandals?
I don’t understand what the problem for you is exactly.

I’d say the reason you don’t understand what the problem for me, exactly, is mostly that you think my problem is what you frame it to be. Trying to discuss anything outside of your frame is just like trying to have a conversation with a Trumper.

On the topic of what you think needs to be done about fixing the Dems, claiming that you already did that in the past as an excuse for avoiding doing it now is a particularly pointless dodge. Maybe you did a poor job of making your case before, or maybe things have changed in some way since then, or maybe my ability to grok your meaning has improved - the point being that communication is an ever evolving endeavor, no matter how much we wish that a thing could be said once and the whole world would understand. The fact is, we humans do a very poor job of communicating with each other, which may be the top problem now and forever.

Just saying...

Sorry, what did you say the problem for you was exactly?

That Charisma is a problem on the far right for having to much of it and a problem on the left for having to little?

If that’s incorrect would you state the problem again?

I think I'm narrowing in on the "problem". The current hypothesis is that you aren't really interested in any sort of discussion or exchange of ideas. I will respect your wishes.