Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Campaign 2020 A Lot Went Wrong for Democrats on Election Night

If we get the two GA Senator seats in January, with the two independents caucusing with the Dems...it will be 50/50 and Mitch-the-bytch won't be able to pull his shyte when Kamala breaks the ties.

...vs..!



Words fail me and I may owe Logs and apology....

While you're scratching around trying to put together a viable third party in a two party system, I'm going to gut the Democratic Party like a hagfish, from the inside out. And I'm going to plant little socialist babies in it's belly.

I'm not sure the Democratic Party needs re-calibration. But I do think they need to listen to their constituents more, the people back in their district and state. I also don't think they need to be in a big rush. This goes for both major parties, it ought to be alright to vote against the party line if that is what the folks back home want. That perhaps it ought to be alright to be a pro-life Democrat or a pro-2nd amendment Democrat. They're going to vote the Democratic Party line 80-90% of the time. Why primary them out and then lose the district or state? Isn't 80-90% better than zero percent? There's a lot of die hard Democrats who don't think so. This also goes for the GOP.

That it's okay for a moderate Democrat to run in a conservative district. By the way, those 3 incumbent Democratic congressmen who were pro-life that were primaried out by pro-choice Democrats, the new candidates lost those districts.

I also think which probably will happen with Biden's election. That the democratic party needs new faces in front of the people. A more moderate face to present to the American Public, one that can attract independents. Biden won with a moderate face, he won independents whereas Hillary lost them.

To win elections one needs to attract more than just the progressive vote. You can't turn off independents, they decide elections. Keep moving left, but slowly, don't over do it to provoke a reactionary anger at your party.

Simply put, there's a lot about the democratic party people like, independents if you will. A lot they don't. Avoid what they don't like and concentrate on what they do. Then comes success in 2022 and again in 2024 and on and on. Overdoing it, making independents angry causes elections like 2010 and 1994. Both Bill Clinton and Obama over did it, they pushed things through or tried to that America as a whole wasn't ready for.

Meh..
A lot of opinion maybe. Your arguing a point out of context with reality, imo.
There’s only two parties that are allowed to function in our country. If there were more parties and ideas on offer, I doubt you could make the claims your making anymore.
The two parties police what’s allowed or not at the behest of capital.

Most people want MFA and big money out of politics. Mr. Market says no so it’s not going to happen. Not because people not want it to happen but because there’s no possibility for it to happen under our Illiberal political arrangement.

Sanders and squad will make performative gestures but fall in line. I’ll remind you of this conversation when they go full kente cloth.
We’ll see about third parties. It’s not that they survive over time but have a history of forcing parties to shift their positions. Trying to reform the Dem party is so much rope pushing.

The problem, is that both major parties owe their hearts and souls to corporations, wall street firms, lobbyists, special interests, mega money donors etc. That's where they get their tens and hundreds of millions of dollars to run their organizations and campaigns. One party doesn't hide it, the other does with a wink and a nod. Now I'm going to talk bad about you, but don't worry, I'll take care of you.

We tried getting a third party going with the Reform Party. It didn't last long as it was hijacked. Besides, the two major parties have a habit of adopting any ideas that catch on with the third party as one of their own.

Then there is the problem that Republicans and Democrats write our election laws and they do so as a mutual protection act. If there is one thing both major parties agree on, it's no viable third party will ever rise.

I agree with your description of the current party situation. Eliminating competition while lowering expectations of our citizenry is what they are paid to do,

I posted two studies recently showing how little voter’s have in influencing policy. It’s the main reason I object to conclusions being drawn from election outcomes and voter sentiment. Parties simply deploy propaganda relentlessly thru media to shape public policy to their desired outcomes.

Two examples would be the Russian hoax on one side and Qanon on the other.

The big BUT is what you said. That party’s just adopt third parties policies to eliminate competition. There’s been some Historical examples of this happening. Under certain conditions they form. I guess the question is have we arrived at that condition?

I’d say most likely. It’s what corporate media does not cover or prohibits reporting on to look for. Poverty, homelessness, environmental collapse, suicide, alienation, decades of economic violence, mass incarceration (that the current election winner had so much of a hand in bringing about, by the way: VOTE!) etc.. have never been higher. No one living today can say they’ve lived anything like it in this country. Trump was one response to Bidens politics. Continuing those damaging policies, which the party has insisting on by choosing the candidates, may help with third party formation.

Not easy but conditions are getting desperate for many. Many more, I’m sure, than when you were working on a similar project. Conditions have changed.

If I learned one thing during my days with Ross Perot and his United We Stand, America and the Reform Party, any viable third party has to start at the grass roots level or at the bottom. We were top driven, we relied on Perot's money.

One has to start off at the local level, concentrating on county commissioners, mayors, city and town councils, state representatives, dog catcher if you will. These races cost next to nothing and can get you a foot in the door. Forget about the presidency, congress and the senate. Any new party isn't ready for that and doesn't have the cash or name recognition to compete.

Say over a ten year span, you get folks elected locally, then move on to the House of representatives, some districts and then to state, Governorship's, Senator, secretary of State, AG and the like.

Only after success at first the local level and then state should one move on to the presidency. No third party will have the billion dollars plus to compete there.

This is where the Libertarians get it wrong. They run for the presidency and for some senate seats while forgetting the local level offices. The money spent in 2016 was Hillary Clinton 1.191 billion, Trump 646.8 million while all third parties combined spent 6 million.

Money is incomplete for 2020, but so far Biden 1.38 billion, Trump 864 million with Libertarian Jo Jorgensen at 3 million.

Actually, what happened to was a reversion to the norm. Democrats need to win elections by at least 4% to break even, and it is even worse for the House as a result of gerrymandering. A lot went wrong for Republicans too. They were actually hoping for a blowout Biden win, because then they could recalibrate. Now they are afraid of their base.

This, I think, helps explain the dilemma, and the future battlefield: Forget traditional election maps — this is what the US vote really looks like (FOX - yes, that FOX). [video:google]https://twitter.com/i/status/1181695687005745153[/video]