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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98 |
I consider most problems over the vaccines are because there is really no history for them so they really don't know a pile of things. Those are things like really not knowing how long a vaccination lasts. The other thing is Covid itself which they are also learning new stuff, seemingly every day.
The problem, I think, is that there are those who expect the medical/science community to have all the answers and they don't. So, every now and then, they change their suggestions and this makes everybody very upset. I also believe there are a LOT of people working, very hard, to learn all they can, as fast as they can, and should not be blamed every time they learn a new thing and pass it on.
I always find it interesting that those who get upset when something new comes up, and instructions change a bit, expect perfection but tend, I think, not to be all that perfect themselves.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433 Likes: 373 |
I personally think reinfection happens all the time. No matter if you are vaccinated or had the disease, if you are exposed to a heavy viral load, it's going to be a while before your immune system manages to kill all the virions. When you are exposed to a small load, that infection time may be minutes. Immunologists talk about a "sterilizing vaccine", which means the vaccine is so effective that any virus is immediately attacked and you never do shed enough to pass it to anybody else. The Covid vaccines are not that effective. Very few vaccines are.
You have to be shedding enough virions to infect anyone else. When they test people by PCR, they talk about CT counts which are the number of cycles they need to double the RNA from the swab before it can be detected. If they have to double it 40 times to get a positive, you will infect nobody. People with a full blown infection have CTs of 10 or less. That's billions of virions they are shedding.
So I think a vaxxed person CAN be infected, but very likely will be asymptomatic and not contagious. That's why CDC said vaccinated people can socialize with other vaccinated people without masks. But I would not want to have close contact with anybody unvaccinated without masks: You could get enough of a viral load to carry it home to some unvaccinated person and make them sick or even dead, even though you remain asymptomatic.
On a different topic: When Long Covid victims get vaccinated, about half of them feel a lot better after about two weeks. There are currently two theories as to what's going on.
1) Their immune system is in disregulation. When they get the vaccine, their immune system goes into "war mode" and then after all the vaccine antigen is dismantled, it goes into the normal "system reset" mode. Kind of like unplugging your computer and then plugging it back in when it is hung up.
2) Corona viruses are gut residents in bats, and cause no illness. In humans with Long Covid, the viruses remain infecting the gut for the long term without stimulating a full blown immune response. (We tolerate a lot of foreign antigens in our guts.) The vaccination makes enough antibodies to wipe out those gut viruses.
There is some evidence for both theories! We know Long Covid victims have disregulated immune systems. And researchers found viral RNA in fecal swabs long after normal nasal swab tests went negative. Thanks for your reply P_I_A 
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98 |
One thing they seemed have learned for sure is that you can get infected even if you have already had Covid and that getting a shot, after you have had Covid, can help your recovery after you have survived Covid.
Good things to know, I think (and really good reasons for getting a shot!)
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
You are entirely welcome, sir!
One thing I have noticed is that the people who get the most upset with evolving scientific advice, are pretty much ignoring all the scientific advice anyway. I worked in medical research decades ago, and learned very quickly that each little new fact is hard earned. And usually is not the whole picture. Science is like a sailboat tacking upwind. It does get there, but it only does that by zig-zagging toward the distant goal.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98 |
I wonder what happens if they give you a vaccine shot when you are found to be infected.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
Plenty of people who are infected have received vaccinations, since so many infections are asymptomatic. It's inevitable, because they don't test people before their vaccine appointment. It's not adding to the amount of virus you have. It does increase the amount of viral antigen you have, so it gives you a stronger immune response. Covid-19 induces a weak immune response in some people, at least in terms of antibody production. That's probably because they cleared the viral antigen before the adaptive immune system could get involved. It is a bit slower than the innate immune system. Like pretty much everything the body does, there are negative feedback signals so the process can be shut down when it's no longer needed. If there is no viral antigen when antibody production is ready, no antibodies. Production of antigen-specific antibodies is called "seroconversion", and lots of SARS-COV2 infected people are "sero-negative". Including me.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98 |
I think what you are suggesting is that, overall, giving an infected a shot is a good thing. I wonder, if you are tested and find that you are infected can you get a vaccine regardless of age, health, etc?
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98 |
I was talking to my sister yesterday. Seems that her husband got Covid just before pandemic was called and was sicker than a dog. Its now been over a year and he has had his shots and is a complete mess (the shot didn't help). He can't sleep, breath, exercise and wants to sleep all the time. She forces him to go play golf. My sister has not had Covid and has also had her shots. Its kinda interesting. She used to be a great cook and now she has lost her taste buds which was around the same time that her husband got sick. I have wondered if she actually had Covid and just wasn't all that bad, except for the taste bud thing.
Just thought I would throw this one in.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433 Likes: 373 |
Got the first vaxx stick. It was Moderna. They did have Pfizer, but it was only for the people getting their 2nd stick. There was a notice that if you got a Pfizer 1st stick to schedule the second in 21 days, and if your 1st stick is Moderna to schedule in 28 days for the 2nd stick.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,046 Likes: 98 |
Its odd. Everybody seems to be getting their shots slightly differently. We got ours back in January (Moderna) We got in line, we were asked pertinent questions and then went in where there were folks directing us to where to go next (we had to answer more question, then directed to smaller lines to get the shot, etc), after we got our shots we had to sit down for about 15 minutes to make sure we wouldn't have a problem and then went to a table to filled out the little card and sent us on our way. Oh, the little card also had the date, and time, for us to return to get the last shot. (if there was a problem with the date or time of the second shot we got to choose another date and time). It was, in other words, pretty simple. The entire operation was run by volunteers. My wife is deathly afraid of needles (have no idea why). She voiced her problem and she was told they would get her a "shot buddy" to hold help her. That consisted of holding her hand and telling her to look into the eyes of the 'buddy". She didn't even feel the shot and I got a LOT of humor out of the whole thing (who ever even heard of a "shot buddy"?). Our town has almost 30% of the town vaccinated.
As an aside I should also mention that one of our Indian bands has access to a lot of vaccine for some reason. They are now giving anybody who wants a vaccination, regardless of where they fall in who should go first. This is happening in Sequim, a small town about 15 miles away. They don't care where you are from, who you are, or anything else. If you want a shot go on down!
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