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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,151 Likes: 54
veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,151 Likes: 54 |
Again, with respect - and I do respect everything in your post - but to not have a plan to deal with rapid advance by the Taliban would seem to be a serious underestimation of someone we’ve fought for 20 years. And they have, what, 2000 members, or fewer?
As a citizen with no military ties or experience- I still say it sucks.
Julia
A 45’s quicker than 409
Betty’s cleaning’ house for the very last time
Betty’s bein’ bad
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
To answer that question, I would say that we have but one CINC at a time.Bush got the credit and blame for his tenure in office. Obama the same, Trump the same, now it's Biden who is CINC.
That's just the way these things work, right. wrong or indifferent. The president get the credit and or the blame for things that happen during his watch. Polls show Biden is getting credit for ending the war and getting us out. Biden is also getting the blame for the botched withdrawal, evacuation. I think in the long term, getting us out will overwhelm the botch evacuation. Short term news vs. long term results.
Now I'm positive the military had several plans for evacuation. If there's one thing the military loves to do, it's drawing up contingency plans. It is up to the CINC to choose which one or none at all which is to be followed or put into use.
I'll add this, I think the rapid Taliban advance caught us with our pants down. That no one ever saw it coming and perhaps no plans were on the drafting board for that scenario. I don't know. I agree with all of this. Biden's "this is not the fall of Saigon" will be indelibly tied to him like "read my lips, no new taxes" stuck to Bush Senior. As NEOs go, though, this is actually an incredibly effective one. Over 117 THOUSAND evacuated, the vast majority Afghans. Yes, the rapid advance of the Taliban was presaged by the Trump agreement. The Taliban learned it from Pompeo - and I am not just kidding or being hyperbolic here. The Taliban used the Trump plan as the blueprint, agreeing with various local commanders to "not attack them" if they withdrew without fighting (and leaving their materiel behind). The Afghan Defense Forces knew that their government was not behind them (witness Ghani running away), so they did the best thing they could for their troops. This will, however, turn into a civil war within a year or so. BTW, ISIS and the Taliban are enemies to each other. The attack on the airport was a dual-pain result for ISIS-K. It embarrassed the Americans and the Taliban at the same time.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
I read the other day The Taliban actually has about 38,000 members now. The Biden administration and Taliban leadership are in contact, and The Taliban actually supports the evacuation. The rapid Taliban advance occurred because the Afghan Army just fled. Not because The Taliban fought their way in to taking those cities. Basically, Taliban fighters just drove in and nobody resisted. So let's not mischaracterize this.
It was all inevitable when Trump met with the Taliban leadership and signed that peace treaty. The Afghan president fled because Trump invited the Taliban to take over.
Educating anyone benefits everyone.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,151 Likes: 54
veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,151 Likes: 54 |
I’ve been trying all day to write a reasonable post for this thread, and I just couldn’t.
You all sound very informed, very factual, and for some reason that truly bugged me, and I couldn’t figure out why.
Tonight it came too me: it’s too soon. For me, at least, it’s too soon. People are still trying to get into the airport, let alone trying to fly out of it. We don’t know the facts yet (if we ever will.)
I’m not jumping on you all for what you’ve written. I’m jumping up and down because of the way I sometimes read things. And for that reason I’m going to try to stay out of this thread.
Julia
A 45’s quicker than 409
Betty’s cleaning’ house for the very last time
Betty’s bein’ bad
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
I just read that the US called in a drone strike on a car that was carrying ISIS suicide bombers toward the Kabul airport. The large secondary explosion confirmed that they had a lot of explosives in the car. Things have changed, a lot. This month, the Taliban are our allies and ISIS in Afghanistan is enemy to both of us.
Educating anyone benefits everyone.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
In a lot of ways, the Taliban is similar to the American right.
They want to Make Afghanistan Great Again.
They are the January 6 Mob unleashed on the whole country.
They are owning the libs.
Just look at 'em...the beards...the guns...the flags...the religious zealotry.
The same mindless radicalism. But they will soon learn to govern or they become a snake eating its own tail.
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,027 Likes: 98
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,027 Likes: 98 |
The other night I was watching the news. They were showing Americans how we armed the Taliban with the very best equipment, guns and rockets and transportation. Seems this gift was part of the Bagram Air Base and a complete arsenal accompanied by lots of armored trucks, etc. The Taliban was proud to have their treasure to be advertised and video of it shown. Apparently, when we gave that base up we made sure that everything was just dandy for the Taliban.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
That's the Reagan plan. If the Russians come back, they will be ready. I bet American arms manufacturers are opening negotiations to sell them replacement parts and maintenance kits soon.
Educating anyone benefits everyone.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,027 Likes: 98
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,027 Likes: 98 |
Oh, I forgot - we also left a bunch of new uniforms and the Taliban likes them too which is why one sees them wearing American army uniforms. Seems we gave them just about everything they need!
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
That's the spoils of war. If we had won we'd have taken a lot more than some clothing and firearms.
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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