Originally Posted by perotista
Biden won the nomination because he was a safe bet to beat Trump. That was the number one priority if not the only priority last November for Democrats.
So far, so good.

Originally Posted by perotista
Not new legislation or major changes
Now, here, we disagree. People wanted change - badly. They just weren't coherent on what changes they want. Republicans are unpopular, nationally, and their policies suck big time. But, US elections aren't national, and there is a built-in bias against getting things done. I think we all agree that people want cooperation and for government to work. But, one of the parties doesn't want that, period. And that party controls half of the seats in Congress, even though only 40% or less of the population. Until that dynamic changes, voters are going to remain frustrated.

Originally Posted by perotista
Biden never offered those.
Completely disagree, and the facts support me on this. Although Biden's plans were overshadowed by the "plan for that" and Bernie, etc., he had a solid, specific platform, and he has stuck to that in his White House. People just weren't paying attention. His agenda had much more substance than you or voters generally give him credit for.
Originally Posted by perotista
Fact is Biden stayed hidden in his basement for most of the campaign letting Trump hog the spotlight, letting Trump be Trump, letting Trump remind the voters why they disliked him so much, especially independents. 2020 was all about getting rid of Trump. Not an endorsement of the Democratic Party or their policies or ideology. As I stated before, Biden won the anti-vote, those who voted against a candidate, not for any candidate, just against 68-30 over Trump. 2020 was a vote for a candidate that acted and behaved like an adult, that was all that was needed. 7 million people voted against Trump, for Biden then voted Republican down ballot if CNN exit polls are correct.
I could quibble, but I won't. I think, in the main, that is a correct assessment - with one caveat: I think people want the country to move forward, they're just a little unclear on what that direction is. I think a program, as Biden offers, is what they want. Biden's stumbles are basically two - the Afghanistan withdrawal (and misreading the facts on the ground), and failing to get legislation passed. As I noted earlier, if he got his agenda moving (which it is, now, in fits and starts), he'd be riding high in the polls. The problem is, he seems feckless because legislation is stalled.

Personally, I think they should have passed a watered-down agenda, then sought add-ons as conditions improved. They're 6 months behind the 8-ball because of infighting. Progressives saw this as their opportunity to exert influence, but they overplayed their hand.

Originally Posted by perotista
Manchin and Sinema’s politics are probably more in tune with more Americans than the progressive wing of the Democratic party.
I disagree.
Originally Posted by perotista
Most of independents who voted for Biden, besides wanting Trump gone, just wanted a return to normalcy and to a saner time. Not new massive legislation. They felt comfortable with Biden, at least for his first six months. Independents were giving Biden somewhere between 53-55% approval rating, basically for not being Trump and not doing a darn thing.
Again, I disagree. There was plenty of support for climate legislation, infrastructure, and COVID relief measures, including among independents.
Originally Posted by perotista
Then the legislation push among many other things and independents approval of Biden and company dropped down to 47% in August, down to 43% September, 37% October and now at 34% today.
Again, that wasn't because the legislation was disapproved of, it's because it didn't go anywhere. That's in the polls, too.

Originally Posted by perotista
Regardless, I think the Democrats problem is they misread the total election of 2020. Sure, they won the presidency, but that was more because of the anti-Trump sentiment than any pro-Democratic Party sentiment. Remember the lost of 13 house seats, 2 state legislatures and a governor ship all the while winning the presidency. Perhaps they ought to look at the ticket splitters who voted Biden then Republican down ballot. That’s not an endorsement for massive change. It’s an endorsement for the status quo minus Trump.

I think the Democrats ought to move slowly forward and not take people out of their comfort zone. Bill Clinton and the democrats did this in 1994 and lost 54 house seats. Obama and the democrats took folks out of their comfort zone in 2010 and lost 63 seats. Biden was viewed as a safe candidate that wouldn’t take people out of their comfort zone, although it seems the progressive wing is trying to make Biden do so. I think if they keep it up, another red wave may indeed happen. Look at Virginia and the very close call in New Jersey where Democrats have than a million voters than the Republicans.
I think you are totally misreading Virginia and New Jersey. Every off-year since Reagan the voters of those States have voted counter-party of the President, in both directions. It happened to Reagan, Bush, Obama and Trump. In fact, Murphy defied the odds by being re-elected. Those elections had very little to do with national sentiment. They had to do with the standard swingy voters and lack of turnout. Democrats lost because MacAuliffe was not a good candidate, the odds were against them, and Democratic apathy.

The time for moving slowly forward has passed. We've been in "deferred maintenance" in this country for half a century and it is showing, big time. Times are getting desperate. Climate change, disease, and failing infrastructure - physical and social - are real, and they are getting worse. People need to be reminded of that.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich