Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Politics In General Winning

What’s a preconceived notion? A bias? A prejudice?
You think it runs with the individual only? Hooey!
You can create the perception, desires and wants. Edward Bernays demonstrated this over and over since selling war bonds in WW1.
I think your conflating bias with propaganda. Bias helps with it but not the only requirement for propaganda.

“ Bernays touted the idea that the "masses" are driven by factors outside their conscious understanding, and therefore that their minds can and should be manipulated by the capable few. "Intelligent men must realize that propaganda is the modern instrument by which they can fight for productive ends and help to bring order out of chaos."

Edward Bernays

Implies outside actors working for different outcomes than where the subjects bias may lead them if left on their own…

I think ideology runs with the individual and thus those preconceived notions. I don't know if ideology is entirely by nurture or indoctrination but it appears to always run around 50% liberal vs conservative. My own theory is that it is genetic.

Driving wedges between the factions is the work of propagandists.

The votes simply don't exist at this time to make real progressive change possible. Give it a decade and you may see things swinging our way. Blame the propagandist, the parties, Our Corporate Overlordsâ„¢, or whomever you will, without the votes things ain't a'gonna change.

If anybody wants to see just how good the Republicans are at demonizing follow what they do with the 1.75 trillion dollar human infrastructure thing. Don't forget to watch how they work in the current inflation. They will prove, to the electorate, that the human infrastructure thing is the Democratic way to create inflation. They will have also created messages that they will all mouth with a will. I know, nobody wants inflation. By the time the Republicans are through the Democrats will be painted as the leaders of inflation with their giveaway to a bunch of bums.

They are just gearing up but, by the time of next year's election the Dems will be well and truly considered the group that gave the nation inflation!

I believe that the Dems would be MUCH better off to put off their human infrastructure bill until after next year's election. If they lose that election their human infrastructure thing will also be gone, if they get their bill passed, and lose next year's election, the Republicans will get rid of their human infrastructure bill. The ONLY way for them, or their human infrastructure thing to survive is to wait until they win next year which also means they have to design their messages, watch their mouths, and ALL join up to win the election! There is no secret about this. The current Dems, however, actually think that they have a chance to inflict a lot of pain on themselves if they continue. Unfortunately they will prove, yet again, that their will to lose is in full flower.

I REALLY hope I am wrong!

I've said this many times, all presidents take credit for a good economy, hence they'll get blamed when the economy turns sour. The thing with Biden and company is that they're giving the impression they don't care about rising prices and the beginning of empty shelves. Which by the way is independents number one issue, their most important issue.

Independents feel Biden and company aren't paying enough attention to this nations most important problems by a 64-36 margin. Which by the way is the economy, rising prices and empty shelves in some stores.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/11/08/rel7a.-.politics.pdf

The Republicans haven't really hit Biden and company on this yet, they don't have to. It's right in front of them to see and feel. I think I need to remind folks that when it comes to elections, especially midterm elections, the party out of power, the party that doesn't control congress doesn't have to do a darn thing. They don't even have to propose anything, just be there as an alternative.

It's the president's and congress's job to get inflation under control and prices stablized. Who's fault this is is totally irelevant. I'd say independents, the non-affiliated and less to non-partisans, no political junkies are saying, fix it. You're in charge, you control government, now fix it.

There's a year between now and the midterms, things can change and so too can perspectives of independents. But right now, their perspective of Biden and company is they aren't doing their job.

Right wingers already are in much the same way you described. They’ve begun to blame the John Deere strike for raising the cost of food. Right wingers hate organized labor so they will jump on the chance to throw dirt, as they have for decades now.

From what I read, the John Deere strike has nothing to do with rising food prices. It has more to do with the rising price and some places the short supply of deisel fuel, some truck stops limiting truckers to 60 gallon as to the distrabution of food and getting it to market. Which means higher transportations cost, food prices rise. Rising food prices probably has a lot to do with the nitrogen shortage for fertilizer. Which in turn means when fertilizer costs more so too does food.Farmers turn away from corn and wheat to soy beans and other crops that need and use less fertilizer.

To produce the nitrogen needed for fetilizer, coal and natural gas is needed which is also in short supply.

In short to use an old phrase, "Houston, we have a problem."

Could be, could be.
I’ve been fascinated at the sea shift from the high water mark of the left culminating in the 30’s and the clap back of the ruling classes almost immediately after WW2 with two right wing purges of the left. The red scare from the 50’s and the rout of organized labor in the 80’s.

Yet the Democrats controlled Congress for what? 40 years of riding left wing achievements from policies and economics of the Depression. The Clintons and Néw Democrats really shoved the party over to the right and it seems like the play has been identity politics and fear as a replacement for real social benefits and services. Not to mention sane economics and a regulatory system.

Stampeding the base like a bunch of hysterics. Never seen seen anything like it with the exception of doing war on Muhammad’s followers. I don’t think very many people had Putin suspicions in their heads before the orchestrated messaging from the HRC camp, corporate mediate, congressional show trials or retired spooks spouting on TV’s. Sorry. That was a total psyop being played on the public by the Dem party, networks and the spook communities. That was created like protocols of Zion.

As far as elections being a barometer of leftist numbers. I don’t see how you can go on the results with only rightwing candidates doing culture war stuff to get elected. India Walton, the Dem mayoral candidate in Buffalo, still got 40% of the vote. That’s after the Dem and Republicans right wing parties, with the always assisting media, doing all they could to run her down. Not a bad showing, all things considered.

But yeah, I take your meaning about blame and excuses. Simply describing my take on the terrain that exists for the left to overcome. That will take time. Luckily, both rightwing parties have nothing to offer cept culture war and fear as the needles keep getting buried into the red for more and more people.

Politics seldom deals with material reality that you described though. For me, it’s devolved into a production assistant for capitalism. Often doing propaganda (or P.R. If that’s more acceptable) or police enforcement.

Here’s an article linking the strike to high food prices:
Food supply chain and strike impact

Fox being the Pravda of the GOP, has to take a page from the New Democrats playbook here. They’ve been playing the party of the working man for some time now. Kinda tricky to talk one way but serve the class enemy of working people. But if Dems can manage it there’s no reason to think the GOP can’t manage also.

So here’s the numbers of some of the proposals that were once in the human thingy bill according to poll from Oct:

Lowering Medicare prescription drug prices:
Support 88%
Oppose 12%
Medicare coverage for dental, eye and hearing:
Support 84%
Oppose 16%
Paid family and medical leave:
Support 73%
Oppose 27%
Universal pre-K for children:
Support 67%
Oppose 33%
(Source: CBS News/YouGov survey, October 6-8, 2021.)

I’ll ask again. What polled so high with the public in the infrastructure pork bill that made it a must do beyond locking in fossil fuel?

Poll would also suggest that on material interests the public looks fairly progressive. If only there was a left progressive political party that could emerge and do class/ material politics. A sorta ‘chicken in every pot’ type of politics. Cuz it would probably be popular if the polls are accurate.

While I agree with most of that, the BBB is what most people aren’t worried about today. Legislation is far down their list of priorities or most important issues. The BBB may be important for the future, but not today, not to most independents anyway. Independents are worried about the price for a gallon of gas, the price for natural gas, the price for food, the appearance of empty shelves. The BBB, it doesn’t register on their list of important issues.

I think too many times a party tries to rely on legislation to win elections which rarely works. At least not in the next election or even the next few. A lot of people want instant gratification. The BBB doesn’t do that, the BBB doesn’t lower gas, fuel or natural, food prices or put stuff back on the shelves. Trump and the GOP thought the voters would appreciate their tax cut legislation and vote them back in on 2018. The tax cut legislation didn’t even enter the fray. Most folks, not political junkies, haven’t even noticed the passage of the infrastructure bill. That bill won’t affect them for years maybe. A few years from now, they may come to appreciate it. But not for the 2022 midterms. Legislation backfired big time on Obama as 2010 showed. Parties that rely on legislation to enhance them at the polls are barking up the wrong tree. At least that’s how I see it when it comes to elections.

You could pass the whole 3.5 trillion BBB bill, but it wouldn’t help come 2022 midterms. You’re looking at inflation as being the most important problem facing the country. It’s not COVID anymore, it’s not the BBB, it’s not climate change or any other problem. It’s in my opinion, either fix or make good progress on inflation, rising prices, empty shelves or face big loses next year regardless of the fate of the BBB. I think this is a political reality, especially among independents.

I ran across this last week, I think the Democrats also ought to take notice.

“Twilight of the Blue-Collar Democrat
In New Jersey and Pennsylvania, last week’s election marked the end of a crucial party constituency.”

https://www.city-journal.org/twilight-of-the-blue-collar-democrat