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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,004 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,004 Likes: 133 |
I'm wondering if anyone else noticed that this thread went off-topic by the 6th post? (And three of the six were about getting a viable link to the Bonhoeffer's Theory video.)
I don't think I saw any post taking issue with the theory, yet here we are 9 pages into a disturbing 'discussion' that isn't really discussing anything.
This reality may be the tip of an icebergian problem. My suggestion is to go back and take a look at the validity of Bonhoeffer's Theory and how it might apply to the current political dynamic - and to try out some ideas on how to fix the problem (if there is agreement that one exists).
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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1 member likes this:
NW Ponderer |
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
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TAT (thanks puddyTAT) provided us with the text back on page 3, which will make it easier to discuss. BonhoefferFor those who would rather read than watch the video. Many sentences and concepts are complex and may require re-reading and considering. TAT Bonhoeffer on Stupidity (entire quote) Written by Averett Jones on December 31, 2019 at 11:04 am (This week’s editorial is from Dietrich Bonhoeffer, one of my personal heroes. Bonhoeffer was hanged by Adolf Hitler in 1945.) Taken from a circular letter, addressing many topics, written to three friends and co-workers in the conspiracy against Hitler, on the tenth anniversary of Hitler’s accession to the chancellorship of Germany… ‘Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed- in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self-satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,210 Likes: 3
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,210 Likes: 3 |
“ Jesus, you're just a repetitious one-note song, aren't you. â€
Another offering to the irony gods.
Yeah, yeah. I’ve heard you before. You’ve been to college. You have the required knowledge to understand these things, etc, etc.
Let’s cut to the chase. Please refer everyone to the criminal acts of collusion or treason that are in the Mueller report.
What page(s) does Mueller cite evidence of criminal behavior of Trump?
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,210 Likes: 3
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,210 Likes: 3 |
Yes it is Logs.
Stupidly is manufactured on a daily basis by people of malice. You think everyone wakes up one day and decides to Invade Iraq? If consent is manufactured, wouldn’t that imply ignorance being manufactured by people of malice as well.
Heck, some of the most malicious people have law degrees (couldn’t resist NWP)
Maybe Russiagate is to early, but what about the invasion of Iraq? Was there no Bonhoeffer’s sitting in prison over there coming to his same conclusion as him?
Do we think only one political stripe manufacturers ignorance?
Last edited by chunkstyle; 11/30/21 02:48 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,082 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,082 Likes: 134 |
All I have to do is lay out the facts—they are irrefutable ... This is the Hoax and the Scam and the Crime of the Century. Just remember, no takers! Please ..... please .... someone on a real news channel take this buffoon on.
Last edited by rporter314; 11/30/21 03:43 PM. Reason: edit
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
Let’s cut to the chase. Please refer everyone to the criminal acts of collusion or treason that are in the Mueller report.
What page(s) does Mueller cite evidence of criminal behavior of Trump? - I can't do that for you. I've regurgitated it far too many times already, and I'm not going to put more effort into your thought processes than you do. Mueller Report (You can look at page 66, and starting at page 191 to get the answers to your questions.)
Last edited by NW Ponderer; 11/30/21 04:01 PM.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,473 Likes: 38
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,473 Likes: 38 |
 TAT
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,210 Likes: 3
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,210 Likes: 3 |
Interesting.
I scanned, again, over my morning coffee. Its long and boring and, like the first time I scanned it when it was dropped, I couldn’t find where Trump committed a criminal act.
I confess, I’m not law schooled. You brought your own pedestal into the thread to scold from.
I’m happy to read where it says Donald Trump committed a crime in colluding with Russia.
Not sure how asking for a citation is a form of trolling.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
My suggestion is to go back and take a look at the validity of Bonhoeffer's Theory and how it might apply to the current political dynamic - and to try out some ideas on how to fix the problem (if there is agreement that one exists). Bonehoefer seems to be right on with his theory. That's why you haven't seen any attempt to refute it. The title of the thread, however, is denialism. And it's OP, and everyone else, are pointing fingers entirely to the Republican party's denial that they are the stupid ones. Their denial of climate change, of vaccinations, of science, and of logic. It is they and they alone who are the stupid ones! Democrats are all smart and good, nary a stupid one among them! Both parties are very much in denial and both parties are fecking stupid. All present here are pretty certain that if Republicans just sat down and shut up and let Democrats do as they please then we would soon be living in a Democratic Utopia free from all the ills of Republican policy. Sickness, inequality, hunger, racism, war, global warming etc. would all go away. And the Republicans would all fall on their knees and worship the not stupid saviors of humanity. That seems to be the only possible solution coming out of Blueanon.
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
No. The obstruction of justice charge is the only one that held any water and it was a fairly weak one that would not have gotten a conviction. I remember living through those times and watching everyone here drooling over locking Trump up while I insisted the charges were weak and unprosecutable. Go back and Read it for yourself.It turns out the charges were weak and unprosecutable. So Dems went into overdrive to find a prosecutable crime...easy since Trump is nothing more than a mobster...right? Guilty of millions upon millions of easily prosecutable crimes! Just gotta investigate a little a find a few good ones! So they dug up something from Ukraine and went ahead and filed charges knowing they wouldn't get a conviction...they didn't. Then they tried again after the riot at the capital, knowing they wouldn't get a conviction...they didn't. He's still free and might be the next POTUS if Dems don't get their heads out of their asses. They are in complete denial of what's really going on and stupidly tilting at all the wrong windmills. Stupid is as stupid does...you can't fix stupid. Perhaps Boneheffer was in denial of these two old axioms?
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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