Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Politics In General Winning

Explaining with a poll why people believe what they believe does not imply why they are not stupid. If one believes the president is responsible for a good economy despite the fact all the evidence does not support that conclusion, well .... ahhh .... how can I put it .... they are stupid. Polling results do not mitigate the obvious.

This is use of a logical fallacy i.e. deriving conclusions from the singular. Sure you can find all manner of "smart", "intelligent" people who believe all manner of things, including but not limited to the ridiculous. There is a well known Dr of virology who Republicans like to cite as intelligent, winner of all kinds of awards, etc etc, who believe we should allow all people, except those who have compromised bodies, to get natural immunity. So what this intelligent person really believes is he doesn't mind 1.6% of the population dying while getting natural immunity. Now would you say he is smart?

Statistically the electorate is stupid. I not only believe that statement is valid but true, and you by presenting one poll after another only confirms it.

I agree with that. There's not much to impute from political polling about what people want, especially not the Gumbo Party (so-called "independents" who don't want to be identified with any party).Gumbos can range from extreme liberals to extreme conservatives, so there is no way to poll what they want as a cohesive glob. The extremes can oppose the same things, but for diametrically opposite reasons.

As for R's and D's, I don't think most of them have any coherent understanding of what they want, either, at least not rationally connected to any particular policy platform. The play is predominantly one of marketing something akin to a video game - an alternate reality of conflict between tribes - and the marketing is is quite often a successful but dishonest con (see examples @TrumpdaGrifter). Because of this reality, it's difficult to create any good advice for influencing voters - how do you fix stupid?

The polls tell us something about the current status of the game, but they don't tell us anything about fixing stupid.

I think I’m beginning to understand your reference or frame of mind. Since we both know the economy is going to do whatever it wants to do. That presidents really have nothing to do with it, no control over the economy. Hence those who blame Biden are stupid. Those who gave Trump and Obama credit for a good economy are also stupid. Those who blamed G.W. Bush for the recession are stupid. Going back to those who blamed Carter for the misery index and those who credited Reagan for the recovery are also stupid. Even blaming old Herbert Hoover for the depression was stupid.

But who’s fault is that? Republicans crowed about Trump’s good economy as did democrats giving Obama a ton of credit of avoiding a depression and reviving the economy. It all boils down to presidents and political parties taking credit for a good economy which they had nothing to do with it, they’ll get the blame for a bad economy.

Quite a lot of people vote the condition of their wallet. Sometimes for Democrats, other times for Republicans. Historically, voters have listed the economy as their number one issue in every presidential election since 1992.

So if voters are stupid, why do we continue to try to get more and more of them to vote? Perhaps, we need to go back to election day, just one day when everyone votes. People had to care to go to the polls and vote. Maybe they were more informed, maybe not. But they certainly had to be more motivated.

Here's something interesting, percentage of the general public that pays attention to politics. 38% of all adults are following politics leading up to the midterms.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/357398/political-news-receiving-heightened-public-attention.aspx

Out of curiosity talking about being stupid. I decided to check out what percentage of Americans are registered to vote. According to the census bureau, for 2020 it was 72.7%. That means that more than a quarter of all Americans don’t give a coyote’s howl about politics. They won’t even register to vote. We know on average, since 1960 that 55% of the people vote in presidential elections, 40% for the midterms. It also means being registered to vote doesn’t mean they will vote.

One can assume with all assuming connotations going along with it is that in an average presidential election year, 45% of all Americans don’t care who becomes the next president. That 60% don’t care which party controls congress in your average midterm. We end up with on average 76% of those who are registered to vote will do so in a presidential election. That 55% of registered voters vote in the midterms.

Now what the above has to do with stupid and the economy, I don’t know. What it does show is a significant number or percentage of Americans don’t give a cat’s meow about politics. Which brings the question of, how many of those who do vote are informed voters or just a casual observer who decides his vote on a whim?

Actually I don't think you are, otherwise you would not have gone to the effort to type about partisan stupidity. You should notice the use of the word "electorate". It is NOT partisan specific.

Really???? Did you ask a rhetorical question for which the answer is obvious?

Stupid people are easy to manipulate. The real question for which the answer is not so obvious, but for which is the subtext of your obvious question is, why do political parties want power?

This only "proves" my point.

The current economy is the result of capitalistic economic forces beyond the control of any mere mortal holding public office. Now this is strange as Republicans claim they are for capitalism and Pres Biden is for communism, so how can they be blaming Pres Biden for the results of those capitalistic forces? And yet somehow, the Republican base believes that contradictory statement is an accurate allegation. Would you say they are being "smart" or "intelligent"?

Ignorance is a choice. If one chooses ignorance, then that person is stupid.

LOL

I should have included the intuitively obvious caveat when using the word "electorate". The electorate is a subset of the group named citizenry, or the electorate are those who actually voted. I do not include those for whatever reason, justification or rationalization they may have to not vote. So among those who actually vote, I suspect a majority are stupid, which is a direct result of ignorance.

So a specific example would be is it more important to save Democracy or more important to elect someone who does not represent Democracy? Stupid people voted for bigotry and not for Democracy.

While someone like Trump is a deeply offensive, abrasive, cretin, who is so highly obnoxious, I would not stay in the same room with him, that would not be the reason I would not vote for him. His obvious bigotry, which does not represent Democracy, would be a reason not to vote for him. Statements and policies which undermine Democracy would be reasons to not vote for him. etc etc

The world is not black or white, ones or zeroes. The world is a delightful color of gray, offering people an opportunity to make the "right" choice given conundrums of ethical/moral angst. Democracy for me is far more important to preserve than the alternatives currently offered by Republicans. If that is not the case ... then choose Orban, someone Trump admires.

How do you define ignorance? Lack of knowledge or information is the common definition. Perhaps that lack of knowledge is due to how our campaigns are runs. Both parties spend billions on political advertising which consist of mostly personal attacks. Neither uses their billions to inform, just to paint their opponent as the worst scumbag on the face of the earth if not in the universe. There’s no attempt to educate or provide useful information to the voter. Most folks completely tune out all these political ads anyway. I did, leading up to the Georgia senate runoff’s I turned off the TV in December and didn’t turn it back on again until after the senate runoff election was over.

What I found interesting, according to CNN’s exit polls was 73% of those who voted had made up their minds who they were going to vote for by the end of August. That’s right after the two conventions. I take most of those 73% were the base of both parties with some independents who lean toward one party or the other. Then the personal attack ads begin trying to persuade the remaining 27% to vote for your candidate. I’d say most of that 27% were independents who hadn’t up to now paid any attention to politics or even government policy until now. So yes, ignorance does apply.

Then by election day, all they have to go on is who to chose to vote for, scumbag A or scumbag B. Both major parties try to get these folks to hate the other guy, the other party more than they hate you and yours. No attempt to inform or educate, just personal attack ads piled on personal attack ads. The crazy thing is we’re trying to do more and more to get more and more of these inattentive, very low information people to vote.

You’re correct, Trump lost to Biden because of his obnoxious personality, his rude and uncouth behavior as president. Not for the many reasons you stated. Trump lost because more people disliked him as a person than disliked Biden as a person. The same can be said of 2016, Where Hillary was more disliked as a person than Trump was. It wasn’t policy or stances on issues, it wasn’t what each might bring to the office of the presidency. 2016 was decided among independents who are the low information voters who only begin to pay attention to politics and the candidates a month or two prior to an election.

These folks will tune out, the 1-6 hearings will fall on deaf ears as they’re not interested in that. They’re interested in the upcoming NFL playoffs, March madness and other things, favorite TV shows, and things like that than politics. Politics to them doesn’t begin until a month or two prior to an election. What happened in politics prior to that, for the 22 or 23 months in-between elections might as well have taken place in the 18th century. I don’t see that changing. The only thing that changed is the higher percentage of the voting electorate today are independents, casual observers to politics than in the past. Independents made up around 20% of the electorate in the 1950’s, rose to 30% in the 1980’s and climbed to 40% over the last 15 years. More and more uninformed deciding elections than ever before.

Here's some examples of the "electorate". They seem to be astonishingly stupid.

Yes…And there are millions upon millions of those people out there.

Why do you continue to blame the parties? Do you think ignorance is solely the purview of politics? People are ignorant because that is how they live .... in ignorance. It is not up to the political parties to educate people. That should have been done long ago, though some educational system. I suspect it is easier to train a person to be a critical thinker early in life rather than wait until some political election.

Look .... the parties recognize the mass ignorance of the citizenry, and act accordingly. If there is a group of people who are easy to manipulate, then that is how parties will approach elections. It is far too late to educate these folks.

I made up my mind the night Trump was nominated. I recognized him for what he was and is, a narcissist, whose only interest was his own. His politics emanate from the delusional thinking he is compelled to endorse as a narcissist. His personality disorder turned out to be more noxious than I had imagined and where I thought Republicans could dissuade him from his most evil inclinations .... well I was mistaken. While I had minimized the effect of the base, it became apparent the base had extorted all elected Republicans who had/have a character defect ... no courage. All of his policies were meant to gain him praise from those who benefited from those policies, be it financial or ideological. Now if you believe he is a person who should occupy the WH .... well .... America doesn't deserve to survive.

Trumpists will take the House and turn it into Bedlam Asylum. Trump's Senatorial sycophants, will vote to convict Pres Biden when the articles of impeachment come their way.

madness at the break of dawn
nighttime comes and reasons gone