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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: May 2006
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Julia
A 45’s quicker than 409
Betty’s cleaning’ house for the very last time
Betty’s bein’ bad
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
There are actually other times lying can be a crime: When the lie is the basis of fraud, slander, sending SWAT to an enemies house, when talking to police or other law enforcement, when talking to the IRS or state tax collectors, etc. Government is pretty well protected if individuals or corporations lie to them. Individuals get much less protection, and have to prove injury in court.
One more instance when lying can be a crime: Glenn Kirschner, retired federal prosecutor, reported on YouTube that every Republican who has signed on to the Party's claim that the January 6th insurrection was "legitimate political discourse" has given insurrectionists "aid or comfort", and quoted the exact federal statute they violated: 18 US Code 2383 specifies fines, prison up to 10 years, and forbids them from holding elected office ever unless congress lifts the restriction by supermajority. This restriction can't be commuted or pardoned by a President, because the 14th Amendment specifically gives that power to congress.
So it will be interesting to see what the Justice Department does with this. Most Republicans could actually be forbidden from holding office, if they supported this lie. They chose this. They didn't have to, and this can be held over their heads for the rest of their lives.
Educating anyone benefits everyone.
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pdx rick |
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
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From The Atlantic, a point I've tried to make many times here. Trump learned early in his private-sector career that it is sometimes more advantageous to break the law and dare someone to call you out than to follow it—and that even if you get caught, the penalty is often a fine dwarfed by the upside of the infraction. He brought that philosophy to the White House, where he encountered rules that were even less enforceable. Trump’s White House lawyers repeatedly warned him about the legal requirement to save documents, just as they warned him about other possible violations of the law, but he had something more powerful than an attorney’s knowledge of the law: the knowledge that it didn’t matter. Every corrupt politician, scoundrel, liar, cheat, and thief knows this.
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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1 member likes this:
pdx rick |
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
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Allow me to speak freely - I thought you was daid, but yore obituary never showed up in the Florida Daily Press.
Too true about Trump and the law... I have experienced legal entanglements with liars and they are next to impossible to beat in the courts.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373 |
From The Atlantic, a point I've tried to make many times here. Trump learned early in his private-sector career that it is sometimes more advantageous to break the law and dare someone to call you out than to follow it—and that even if you get caught, the penalty is often a fine dwarfed by the upside of the infraction. He brought that philosophy to the White House, where he encountered rules that were even less enforceable. Trump’s White House lawyers repeatedly warned him about the legal requirement to save documents, just as they warned him about other possible violations of the law, but he had something more powerful than an attorney’s knowledge of the law: the knowledge that it didn’t matter. Every corrupt politician, scoundrel, liar, cheat, and thief knows this. Welcome back Greger.  ...Archives officials suspected Trump had possibly violated laws concerning the handling of government documents — including those that might be considered classified — and reached out to the Justice Department," people familiar with the matter said. - WaPo
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
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I have experienced legal entanglements with liars and they are next to impossible to beat in the courts. Oh, I don't think that is true. Sarah Palin's suit against the New York Times is probably going to be dismissed. All those suits from Trump's lawyers got dismissed. Judges are usually pretty good at figuring out who is lying and making up faked "injury".
Educating anyone benefits everyone.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,004 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,004 Likes: 133 |
Haha… that’s not my experience. Or the experience of my lawyer friend. Most lawyers will tell you up front that if you expect justice from the court system you’re barking up the wrong tree. It likes settlement, not justice.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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1 member likes this:
Greger |
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
Of course it likes settlement: Nobody has to do any work when suits or criminal cases are settled. Laziness is a big motivator. If you go to trial, it's a crap-shoot. Jury members are selected to be as ignorant as possible. Useful to know if you ever want to be excluded from a jury: Just claim some expertise over any aspect of the case. BANG, you are out of there in minutes so you don't "contaminate" any other juror's blank little mind.
Trial outcomes are a lot like elections: Seldom decided on facts. Jurors like the way some lawyer looks, or they feel bad for either plaintiff or defendant. Or they just dislike somebody for some pet peeve. My favorites are: "He wouldn't be here if he wasn't guilty." and "He may not have committed this crime, but I'm sure he did some other crime we don't know about."
Educating anyone benefits everyone.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373 |
I have experienced legal entanglements with liars and they are next to impossible to beat in the courts. Oh, I don't think that is true. Sarah Palin's suit against the New York Times is probably going to be dismissed. All those suits from Trump's lawyers got dismissed. Judges are usually pretty good at figuring out who is lying and making up faked "injury". Sarah Palin's NYT suit is in the hands of the jury this weekend. It was only a one-week trial. Sarah took the witness stand and contradicted herself. She claims she just a grandma of 8 in Wasilly and the NYT attacked a lowly nobody grandma. A short time later, she mentioned being invited to all sorts of TV opinion news shows. Having the IQ of a gnat has never benefitted Sarah Palin.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
The judge dismi8ssed the suit today, for lack of evidence, but told the jury they should go on deliberating in case it gets appealed. A higher court could always send it back as "reinstated", but if he already has a verdict maybe they won't bother.
Educating anyone benefits everyone.
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