Originally Posted by chunkstyle
I think Putin is an autocrat that was our autocrat until he wasn’t.

There is NO WORLD that exists where that never happens, get over it.

Originally Posted by chunkstyle
My old man’s dad came over from Italy in the 30’s. Hard to get work in northern Italy as a trade unionist at that time. I remember as a teenager reading reports about our man in Chile taking shop stewards off the floors for helicopter rides and disappearing thousands of leftists. You may not recall it, but I think I mentioned growing up in a union household. My dad was a shop steward. I share a burning hatred for fascism too. I see the Clintons and the corporate Dems being the worst enemies of labor and the working class of this country. They got more done as Dems to destroy labor. I don’t believe in the binary that’s being peddled in corporate media when it comes to this current situation. Just as I don’t believe the false binary of our two political factions in this country. Russian POW’s, as I recall, were liquidated by Nazis right along with polish Jews. There’s disturbing history in western Ukraine with regard to the Jews there as well as Poland.

There are almost NO jews remaining in Poland, and Poland's right wing parties acted out a tantrum objecting to the press making references to Poland's participation in Nazi atrocities, saying it was unfair character assassination.
Your paternal grandfather might as well be MY Italian maternal grandfather, who was almost taken for one of those rides, although not in a chopper.
He was told he had a matter of hours to vacate his wrought iron works and cabinet-making shop, which resulted in him fleeing to America in the 1920's with my Mom in tow while his wife stayed behind trying to salvage anything that was left. A few years later he returned and tried to make another go of it but gave up and came back to America, this time with the wife.

Originally Posted by chunkstyle
Again, we’re escalating at a murderous level in a deadly dangerous situation that could all have been avoided with negotiating a security treaty with Russia.
We have no Democracy. We have stagecraft. Something you and I should know something about, having worked in entertainment.

The day you're not allowed to vote at all or forced to vote as I described, you get to say that.
Or you can be a half-empty glass guy and say it but I intend to vote this fall and in 2024 if we still can.
Do I think our representative democracy is ideal? Far from it.
But I don't even know what you think IS ideal democracy...if you want direct democracy, know that direct democracy failed 2500 years ago in Athens and that The Party of Trump exerts enormous effort at painting what WE have AS the Athenian experiment when they claim the Founders never intended us to be one.
They count on ignorance to achieve that sleight of hand and you know that.

Avoided by a security agreement with Russia?
Should we also have made security agreements with El Chapo?
After all he ran pretty much all of Latin America.

You do realize that Russia's DEMANDS in said agreement are non-negotiable and consist of

The demands include:
1. A ban on Ukraine entering Nato --- OKAY that one's understandable. Ukraine being in NATO is and always was problematic.
2. Russia wants NATO arms out of Eastern Europe.
3. Russia wants a ban on NATO missiles within striking distance
4. Russia wants autonomy for eastern Ukraine

Hmmmm, no NATO arms anywhere in Eastern Europe...so is there any counter that demands Putin never move his arms INTO Eastern Europe?
A ban on NATO missiles within striking distance, precisely what Trump engineered as regards those Javelins, Ukraine can have them but they
must be parked out of range, making them useless and pointless.
Autonomy for the colonies which Stalin erased and repopulated?

Yeah, sounds very reasonable, if you're on Putin's side, but sorry, very unreasonable unless everyone's okay with more Donestks, more Luhansks, more and more and more
until almost ALL of Ukraine is incrementally Russianized.
Do the Ukrainians get a voice in all of this?
Doesn't sound like they do, Ukrainians be damned so yes let's go with Putin's demands and then say that listening to Ukrainians equals jingoism.

Man oh man it's SOOOO easy to just call people jingoist.


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