Originally Posted by chunkstyle
Didn’t say listening to Ukrainians was jingoism.

What I said is- ‘ Your argument of ‘Putin wins, democracy loses’ smacks of jingoism to my ear’. That seems to annoy you. You might simply ask me why it would.

---I think you're hearing something other than me.
If Putin wins, as in "wins IN Ukraine" ....if he subdues Ukraine, he places his military in Ukraine.
That moves Putin to the doorstep of Europe, agreed?

If not, tell me why that's okay, why subduing the Ukrainians is okay.

Originally Posted by chunkstyle
I’m glad you think showing up to vote is democracy. I would disagree but that would be a big departure from the topic at hand. But the argument of losing our democracy seems vague to me. How would we lose our Democracy (your ability to show up to vote) by negotiating a security treaty with Russia.

Rephrase your question because that's not what I said.
I am saying that if Putin wins, fascism wins, if fascism wins, it grows stronger and continues feeding the monster here.
I did not say that if we negotiate a (entirely one sided) "security agreement" that we wake up tomorrow sans democracy.
Don't play these stupid games.

Originally Posted by chunkstyle
We didn’t seem to lose our ability to go vote (noting not everyone was able to) during the Soviet era of the Cold War and detente. I find your list of Russian demands to be reasonable.

And that means you think the needs of Ukrainians don't count.

Originally Posted by chunkstyle
I don’t believe you answered my question- Are you ok having Russian troops, bases and weapons systems on our border?

No, of course not.
I think it is obvious why.
I also think that giving in to 100% of Russia's want list puts us one step closer to having Russian troops, bases and weapons systems on our border because
Russia's list does not end with Ukraine, it ends with Trump and the US political party that is now loyal to Putin.
Even if Trump never takes office again, his party is still loyal to Putin now.

In essence, we already HAVE 147 Russian troops in Congress right now and we had Kremlin eyes and ears in the Situation Room for four years.

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