Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Foreign Policy & News Ukraine: How might the war end? Five scenarios

Can't believe I have to say this, but words actually have meanings.
There is no "de facto" except in the mind of Putin, who is approaching the point where he's just about
ready to say that ANYTHING short of falling down in abject fealty at his feet constitues an act of war against him.

Someone in Ukraine said the WORD "NATO" and Putin is having a rage-gasm over it.

Except, the truth is, you're either a member of NATO or you're not.
If Ukraine WAS a NATO member, the amount of time needed to set up a no-fly zone would be less than 24 hours.
If they were a NATO member, then NATO would already be IN COUNTRY...they're not.

You don't get to just say stuff and suddenly it's true.
Ukraine isn't a NATO member.
It's not even in the EU, although that is NOW probably a done deal but that's Putin's fault.

Look, he's probably going to wind up GETTING total control over his "now independent" Donetsk and Luhansk
oblasts, but it's going to cost him way more than before the invasion.
He's probably not going to get much else...had he held off, he might have gotten a better deal.
The more he digs his heels in, the more the entire free world resists.

I really don't expect you to change your views on anything, but know this:

This isn't just America taking a stand anymore...it never really was in the first place.
A cursory look at all of Europe should prove that point.
It's not even just about America's military either, or Europe's.
It's about the PEOPLE, and again, a cursory look at the people's reactions all over Europe should prove that point.

By going full tilt on Ukraine, Putin has galvanized public opinion against him.
He's NEVER going to see a return to even grudging acceptance.

That's not even me talking, it's what everyone in the free world is SEEING...right here...right now.

It’s you watching your tv and typing into the internet with a head full of flies.

Frankly, what you lack in depth you make up in length with your posts. You’d think having been mislead about the previous two decades of military conflict involving the US and its vassal states would have sharpened your critical thinking skills. All it took was a BS Russophobia story to cover an incompetent political campaign and you find yourself falling in line with officialdoms fairy tales. Hell, they have you taking the same side as the Nazis.

Thought ever occur to you that all sides are BS and not worth taking?

Wow, this sets a new record! I have never been able to incorporate an insults into every single sentence in a posting! Purrhaps this suggests that refutation is failing and dismissive comments and insults are all that is left.

Near as I can tell only Donald Trump ever gave him even grudging acceptance. Folks who had to do business with him held their noses and did it.

If he conquers Ukraine and occupies it he will still have oil and natural gas that Europe desperately needs. He will still have a population of millions who need food and consumer goods. Trade will continue in some fashion. Acceptance of Putin is not required.

It's possible that Putin's sycophants haven't even told him how badly the war is going...

Could be Tat. Maybe I’ll try sniping from the sidelines towards one poster without adding anything substantive to the debate.

Let's stop talking about each other and stick to the topics. If ya'll wanna do a flame war take it back to the Dumbass thread and leave the other topics for the rest of us.

I’ve been seeing this a lot. That Russia’s war is going badly.
Critically speaking, who’s saying this and what is the rational? I remember the American public being propagandize with all the ‘we’ll be greeted as liberators..’ rubbish. Failing that state propaganda scenario, the state was able to maintain lies with the public, a deception of the reality on the ground, in both Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Vietnam. I take a cynical view of the corporate media in regards to any conflict involving us or the states Oceana is at war with. Especially with the merging of corporate media and the MIC since, what? Panama maybe? Definitely Iraq.

---So you admit that you're getting squirrelly with your "Ukraine is almost NATO/almost pregnant" conspiracy theory.

As far as I know, I've never been dead before.... but, in all other respects, I agree with your approach.

It is hard to describe how wrong some of the assessment posted here have been, but the important thing is what's next? Where do we go from here?

Putin is insulated, personally, from economic effects. The question is whether it will affect enough of the military-police structure for him to be overthrown.

Are you saying that Ukraine wasn’t becoming become a DeFacto or fait accompli NATO member? Understanding there’s a difference between defacto and dejure?

That you can receive training for NATO integration, weapons platforms integration and military installations and simply not bother calling it NATO?

I’m still stunned at the lack of capacity from certain quarters of the American public to not comprehend what the significance of having a similar situation develop on our own borders, having Russian or Chinese naval practices in the Gulf of Mexico or off the coast of Portland but can fully immerse themselves in the righteousness of US provocations abroad.

As though it’s about an ‘almost pregnant’ argument and not simply ‘is what it is’, or ‘was’ in the current catastrophe. An inability to admit to the possibility our actions were provocative towards Russia. The reality of us meddling over there, not here.