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Originally Posted by Greger
Quote
Russia didn’t deindustrialize. Or China.

No, they didn't. They de-humanized instead. In service to industry.

You don't hear folks over there asking for a sustainable wage, free education, and M4A.

They don't ask for anything. They just work in the sweatshops turning out drywall screws.

Like we used to do here. Until they fall over dead.

Uhh… not saying it’s a workers paradise in Russia but what are you basing your descriptions on? Sounds like exaggeration to me or conditions from our implementation of economic ‘shock doctrine’ from the early 90’s. Today’s Russia is far improved from that time period.

Again… who’s pie is this goatf#ck foreign policy we’ve committed to are we talking about? Were wrecking global supply chains in the persuit of ‘full spectrum global dominance’ as though one country could run the world. Resolving these geopolitical and economic contradictions looks like a unfolding disaster.

The ‘doubling down’ of the neocons looks very dangerous. A person who’s lost their ideological position and world view tends to commit even harder to the bit. I think they’ll wreck a good deal more than Ukraine and Europe in order to justify their positions and world view.

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Quote
Today’s Russia is far improved from that time period.

No. It's not. I've been reading interviews with some of the many thousands of Russians who are fleeing Russia. When asked whether they were worried about Russophobia in other countries they said no. Nothing could be worse than the way Russia treated Russians.

It's a horrible place to live. Unless you're an oligarch.

And speaking of a worker's paradise, China ain't the first place that comes to mind either.

But you think we should be more like them? Grinding people up in the industrialist's machines?

I have an entirely different vision for the future of humanity. A much gentler future.


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Originally Posted by Greger
I have an entirely different vision for the future of humanity. A much gentler future.
You mean, "Relax, and have a homebrew"?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Originally Posted by Greger
Quote
Russia didn’t deindustrialize. Or China.

No, they didn't. They de-humanized instead. In service to industry.

You don't hear folks over there asking for a sustainable wage, free education, and M4A.

They don't ask for anything. They just work in the sweatshops turning out drywall screws.

Like we used to do here. Until they fall over dead.
Time for a near limerick?

There once was a man named Dick,
Who was blessed with a corkscrew prick.
He spent his life in a futile hunt
For a woman with a corkscrew (kooch).
And when he found he he fell over dead,
Damned if she wasn't a left hand thread!


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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“ No. It's not. I've been reading interviews with some of the many thousands of Russians who are fleeing Russia. When asked whether they were worried about Russophobia in other countries they said no. Nothing could be worse than the way Russia treated Russians.”

Yes. It is.
Did all that interviewing turn up any Russian expat longing for the days of the Yeltsin regime? Reading stories of expats for commentary about the state of their home country is like interviewing Miami Cubans about the state of Cuba. The book ‘Immigrants as a Weapon’ from the earlier linked author Yasha Levine explains the US practice of using far right, upper class emigrees for propaganda purposes. The quick take: we rehabilitate fascists and rightwing elements to our foreign policy causes. Cuz we’re basically a rightwing country in a liberal wrapper.

I’m of the opinion that governments are there to improve its citizens lives. From there, I can form an opinion if that is being done or not in the US as well as other countries. You might not like how other countries organize but you can objectively tell wether or not they have a fed population and has made available those things that are needed to sustain life. That’s going to get very difficult for the NATO sphere countries of Europe. I’m guessing some political backlash in the coming year.

It’s planting season right now. Fertilizer and diesel have skyrocketed in costs thru out Europe.
The IMF has recently issued a warning the dollar is being undermined as a reserve currency due to the theft of foreign reserves directed by state.
Germany is staring down deindustrialization as its input costs soar. They’re talking about rationing energy to industry by shutting down factories.

You should get in touch with the German trade union and tell em it’s a good thing. They won’t be getting ground up in the industrial machines no more. Maybe they can adopt a ‘sharing economy’ and start renting rooms out in their houses or ferry people around in their cars for 12-16 hours like we do here ?

Seems like they should be happy to make the trade to preserve the Ukraine swindle where any company having over 50 employees and a board had a US senators fail child collecting a paycheck for a no show job. There was more than the Biden’s dipping their beaks in that neonazi cess pit. Now a bastion of liberal democracy once Russian tanks crossed its borders…

Last edited by chunkstyle; 04/10/22 02:59 PM.
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Originally Posted by chunkstyle
It’s planting season right now. Fertilizer and diesel have skyrocketed in costs thru out Europe.
The IMF has recently issued a warning the dollar is being undermined as a reserve currency due to the theft of foreign reserves directed by state.
Germany is staring down deindustrialization as its input costs soar. They’re talking about rationing energy to industry by shutting down factories.
Could be high time they transitioned to permacultural practices in farming (avoiding most of the diesel costs), nutrients from composting, syngas for heating from pyrolysis (no more big profits from natural gas given to useless children), carbon returned to the soil from the atmosphere via biochar produced during pyrolysis, and new manufacturing of bioenergy/biochar equipment.

Looks like an opportunity for a win-win-win-win-win situation!


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Jesus what a wall of text. And all to say that life in Russia is great and the world is in a sorry state.

For many years Putin allowed Westernization and a modicum of press freedom and opposition. You might say the Eye of Sauron was elsewhere.

Then came the crackdown. An entire generation(who have known no other leader besides Putin) are frantically trying to get out of Russia. Navalny, who led the opposition was poisoned and then jailed. Anyone protesting the war is being jailed. There is a new iron curtain.

Running a drywall screw machine for 16 hours a day doesn't appeal much to them.

As for the sorry state of the world, we are but fellow travelers, here for threescore and ten.

Quote
I’m of the opinion that governments are there to improve their citizen's lives.

Now here we agree. But historically that has seldom been the case. Prosperity comes and goes, governments come and go.

But it has now become possible for governments everywhere to modernize, computerize, and exist solely to improve the lives of their citizens.

That they exist instead as greedy money-grubbing whores for industry is a situation that future generations will have to change.


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It's the Despair Quotient!
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It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel
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Originally Posted by Greger
That they exist instead as greedy money-grubbing whores for industry is a situation that future generations will have to change.

Some amount of that is unavoidable and always has been.
But when it becomes laser-focused and driven by enormous concentrations of wealth against the backdrop of turbocharged wealth inequality and paired with an authoritarian chopping block of identitarian fundamentalism, it's fascism.

We're staring fascism right in the face right here, right now.
And it's not because a handful of soldiers sported a wolfsangel tattoo, which by the way has yet to be found on any of these so called "Ukrainian Nazis" (aka dead civilians)
some folks speak of incessantly.

WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTO

A photo of Ukrainian civilians killed in a Russian mortar strike highlights the toll of war


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Quote
Looks like an opportunity for a win-win-win-win-win situation!

Industrialists are trying to stave off the inevitable.


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Quote
Some amount of that is unavoidable and always has been.
But when it becomes laser-focused and driven by enormous concentrations of wealth against the backdrop of turbocharged wealth inequality and paired with an authoritarian chopping block of identitarian fundamentalism, it's fascism.

That's as good a name for it as any I suppose...

Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economy


But authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economy takes many forms.

Pretty near all of them revolve around a strong man of some sort and pretty near all of them eventually fall apart when the strong men die or are deposed.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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