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Well… India and China are laying pipe for Russian gas. Last I looked, they represent a significant portion of the world.
But please, continue to moralize over the realities.
Yes I am aware that those are the current circumstances. I think I headed the preceding post with some careful utterances of
"On the OTHER SIDE OF such a recession"
Who knows, maybe Putin just decides to "declare the future sovereignty of Luhansk, Donetsk, Donbass now secure" and walks away. Best case scenario? Acceptable to Zelenskyy? Acceptable to the rest of the world? That's anybody's guess, but even with such a relatively "benign" end game, I cannot imagine investors in the West clamoring for a bright future association with a proven unstable partner.
Coming out of a full scale hissy fit, even if it were to remain "conventional" (as in NO NUKES) I imagine investors even more soured on the notion. At some point, it's going to become so unattractive to deal with The World's Biggest Cootie that even if he face plants in a bowl of borscht this morning, investors in most of the free world aren't even going to calm down until YEARS after they hear his final submerged death gurgle.
In fact, Putin going fully tits up with posies in a casket stirs morbid curiosity about what may arrive in his wake. As far as the rest of the free world is concerned, we might as well be looking at Russia in the era of Leonid Breshnev as far as trade is concerned...
...for the foreseeable next seventy years.
And I said two of the largest economies of the world will be buying Russian gas. The rest of your post is all the usual speculation thru your Russiagating lens. Time will tell, providing things don’t go very wrong.
Ahh neocons. Dreaming of global domination by making the world free.
How’s Iraq, Libya or Syria these days? Member us being the good guy honest brokers then? Remember the ‘your either with us or against us’ neocons too.
Reread the first post of this thread your blundering around in. It’s an admission that we weren’t taking Russia’s security concerns seriously and refused to negotiate.
It is becoming quite clear that in the end, if you take Putin's worldview seriously, you can't separate from something called "Russia's SECURITY concerns" anymore. And that's because the worldview he has IS his idea of "security concerns", and his idea of security concerns is dismantling all forms of democratic rule everywhere.
You standing over in your corner screaming at everyone and calling us "NEOCONS" is a smokescreen, methinks. I don't take your affinity for democracy seriously anymore. You remind me of some East Germans I read about, who seem to express a somewhat comfortable affinity for authoritarian order. The fact that yours springs demonstrably from a far Left position instead of far Right is irrelevant from where I sit, authoritarianism is authoritarianism and is antithetical to democracy either way.
Quote
Michael Nattke, a former neo-Nazi who now works on combating extremism at a Saxony nonprofit, said the experience under authoritarianism may have predisposed some Germans to appreciate the Russian model, rather than fear it. For Nattke, that realization recasts histories of the anti-Soviet uprisings of the 1980s: “It’s not pretty, but I would put forward the hypothesis that not all, but a large part, of the population took to the streets for prosperity and not for democratic values. “Therefore, I think there is a part of the population for whom this kind of authoritarian order is very familiar, which is evident also in the election results of the AfD,” Nattke added. More prosaic memories may color perceptions of Russia, said Karl Schlögel, a German historian of Eastern Europe. Fondness for Soviet troops stationed in eastern Germany, he said, became the “basis for an intense nostalgia or sentimentality.”
So if your story is similar to the guy who used to play football with the KGB guys at the old house across the street in Dresden, that would be understandable. As is your all consuming hatred of people who aren't far Left enough for you...the Venn Diagram has become a perfect circle now.
I get it, believe me I do.
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It’s an admission that we weren’t taking Russia’s security concerns seriously and refused to negotiate.
Did you mean to say we weren’t taking Ukraine’s security concerns seriously enough?
I wonder if Putin would have invaded his neighbor (twice) if it had been a NATO member…
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
Considering the current situation in the Ukraine, no, we didn’t take Ukraine’s security seriously enough.
Do you prefer war or diplomacy logs?
Simple question. Which one?
I know Jeff’s answer already…
Simple answer - diplomacy.
Simple question. What happens when both sides won't engage honestly in diplomacy?
For instance, you appear more often to be an intransigent bully, less a diplomat. (Take a look at your comment about Jeffery above). My understanding of your logic is that we should simply acquiesce to all of your arguments and be good little diplomats.
(I think I know the general gist of your answer already...)
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
An impasse. You may not like it but I don’t see the situation the same way as you do.
Again, this thread started with the situation of the lack of diplomacy for any of Russia’s security concerns and a demand to negotiate as they declared the situation on their border was becoming intolerable. I’ll remind you that shelling into the breakaways by Ukrainian forces increased dramatically in the two weeks of run up to Russia’s invasion.
There have been diplomatic negotiations while the military conflict has been ongoing as well.
Zelensky agreed some of the Russian terms from the last held Turkish negotiation, Iirc. He reversed himself the next day. Many analysts believe it was due to pressure from the US and UK governments.
It looks like that will be the last of three attempts to negotiate and the other form of negotiations, war, will play out to its conclusion.
Reread some of your savory comments towards me in your previous posts. You may need to remove the plank from your own eye to do it though. You have this annoying habit of declaring other hands dirty while yours stay clean, IMO.
Putin's massive military invasion was just a tool in his diplomacy toolbox?
Perhaps ad hominem attacks are tools of diplomacy, as well?
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
Reread some of your savory comments towards me in your previous posts. You may need to remove the plank from your own eye to do it though. You have this annoying habit of declaring other hands dirty while yours stay clean, IMO.
I took your advice and went back to look at all of my comments involving you. I found two humorous pokes and one serious opinion that was not meant to be an insult. Not much of a plank… how big is your wood on the same subject?
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
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