Capitol Hill Blue Forums Life and Moral Issues Religion and Philosophy Abortion

Again, there are people, for and against, on both sides but they have, pretty much, been dispensed with when it comes to the righteous, on both sides. Most of what we hear is the extremes, on both sides. I have no doubt that this thing is really important to many but they are not getting covered by our media in any meaningful way. All that being said I suspect that they most extreme side will loose in November.

I believe that there are more in the middle than on any specific side. I consider those who agree that there has to be rules and, as far as I can tell, that means available in first 15 weeks, available in cases of rape, incest or health of the mother. I have also noted that there is nobody claiming that they would be responsible for the not wanted children being raised and educated (up to and including college)). I used to have two friends (now gone). Both were raised in orphanages and told me they were happy campers there. They had food, people who cared for them, and a regular place to lay their heads. They also said that they also watched as their state legislators reduced the money for the orphanages and noted that the lack of money meant having people working in orphanages being less and less competent and they were lucky because, in the end they all got shut down due to staffs that were paid, basically, the minimum. (same thing pretty much happened to Insane asylums).

I'm not sure the alternative to orphanages are "better". The child welfare agencies have to lower and lower their standards for foster parents. Race to the bottom? Orphans become slaves? We already have pretty shady people taking in a bunch of foster kids to live on the government money that comes with them. In essence, those are just privatized orphanages with very poor supervision.

Apparently it's impossible to tell the difference between a woman aborting a pregnancy because of abortion pills and a woman having a spontaneous abortion. Spontaneous abortions account for about 25% of pregnancies according to collected statistics, but the actual rate may be much higher because many women don't even know they are pregnant and it happens so early they just think it was a heavy or untimely period. (These are actually a good thing, because the fetuses are generally not viable.)

So in many "no exception" states, women having spontaneous abortions are now being assumed criminals until proven otherwise. But how do you prove God induced your abortion?

Yay? More single men running around? Asking for a friend.

That was my basic point. orphanages are probably cheaper to maintain. I suspect they are also better than what they kids have to deal with right now. I'm not saying that there aren't good foster parents but there are a LOT of really bad ones as well. An orphanage, on the other hand, will have rules, regulations, investigations, and reports. What we have now is a disaster. I have often wondered if anybody has done a study of children graduating from a foster home to see what the results of being fostered really are. Then I googled: "children raised in foster homes". Here is the first one I got: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S019074091730213X

There were a lot more and the results are not all that good. I actually knew of one foster mother who was the wife of the local safeway store and she wanted the money to spend on herself.

Wishful thinking in this day and age.
If we wind up with orphanages again, they will wind up being run by something like CCA, Corrections Corp of America.
An outfit LIKE CCA will probably lobby HARD for the contract and they will use corrections people to design and run them. So in the end, that's what orphanages WILL wind up like, complete with the overcrowding, lousy conditions and lack of accountability that ALL private prisons are famous for.
And they will demand, and GET, the right to SUE states that don't KEEP the beds filled.

What's the difference between an immigrant detention center and a modern day orphanage? No illegals.

By the way, painting all Dems as being for ABSOLUTIST positions on abortion is a big FAIL.
If you're thinking that way, your thinking is woefully inaccurate, and not a good look.

The majority of libs and cons alike simply want it to remain legal but many in both sides of the spectrum are willing to admit to some regulations like twenty or twenty four week barriers unless the fetus is incompatible with life, or the health of the mother is threatened.

Here is what the majority of Americans DO NOT WANT:
Oklahoma's law saying that abortion is illegal from the moment of conception. NO EXCEPTIONS.
That's also absolutist.

That law will murder women with ectopic pregnancies. You can't fit a growing fetus inside a 1 centimeter fallopian tube, with out a lethal tube rupture. Then she bleeds out into her abdomen. The fix is simple: Remove the fallopian tube and ligate the blood vessels. But that's the end of the fetus, and according to "no exception" laws, an abortion. Of course, the mom dying kills the fetus too.

This is why I think the Supreme Court will rule that exceptions are required for the state's law to be constitutional. This law is like state legislatures passing laws that henceforth pi will have a value of 3. It ignores facts some people wish were not so. But laws will not stop them being true.

And these particular Oklahomans are so siloed and so fact averse that they're probably willing to go to war over reality being an inconvenient truth. Their GOD SAYS that pi IS really three and that decimals are the work of Satan.

Do you understand who and what we are dealing with?
I wager that you do, but I had to ask the rhetorical question anyway.

Of course I do, but you do any work in the real world and that 0.141562 is going to bite you in the ass bigtime.