WE NEED YOUR HELP! Please donate to keep ReaderRant online to serve political discussion and its members. (Blue Ridge Photography pays the bills for RR).
Current Topics
Trump 2.0
by Irked - 03/14/25 10:00 AM
2024 Election Forum
by rporter314 - 03/11/25 11:16 PM
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 16 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Agnostic Politico, Jems, robertjohn, BlackCat13th, ruggedman
6,305 Registered Users
Popular Topics(Views)
10,260,915 my own book page
5,051,279 We shall overcome
4,250,718 Campaign 2016
3,856,322 Trump's Trumpet
3,055,489 3 word story game
Top Posters
pdx rick 47,430
Scoutgal 27,583
Phil Hoskins 21,134
Greger 19,831
Towanda 19,391
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Irked 1
Forum Statistics
Forums59
Topics17,128
Posts314,539
Members6,305
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Today's Birthdays
Buzzard's Roost, Troyota
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 15 of 22 1 2 13 14 15 16 17 21 22
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,994
Likes: 63
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,994
Likes: 63
Definitions of words change over time. What was the definition of a milita back in colonial times or when the 2nd Amendment was written?

The militia was a long-standing English institution transplanted to Britain’s North American colonies. In basic form, the militia was the community under arms: all able-bodied free men under a certain age (later limited in most states to white men) were obligated to serve.

https://law.stanford.edu/2020/10/12/stanfords-greg-ablavsky-on-law-and-the-history-of-american-militias/#:~:text=The%20militia%20was%20a%20long,men)%20were%20obligated%20to%20serve.

And

During colonial America, all able-bodied white men of all ages were members of the militia, depending on the respective state’s rule.

https://brewminate.com/a-history-of-militias-in-the-united-states-since-the-colonial-period/

A militia at that time was basically all able-bodied free, white men that fell within a certain age range.

And yes, the 2nd amendment is in two parts. The first is about the militia, the second about the right of the people.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Originally Posted by Greger
Quote
people have a right to a well regulated militia who keeps and bear arms.

But that's not what it says at all!

It says that the people have the right to keep and bear arms, and that right shall not be infringed. And it says that pretty clearly. It also says that a well-regulated militia is necessary..
It says the people have a right to a militia that can bear arms. Once again, the words "well regulated militia" validate this point. If the Founders wanted individuals to bear arms - they would have stated that. The 2A doesn't state that.

Nowhere does the word "individual" exist in the 2A. As we both know, the Founders were fond of the word and they would have said individuals, if they meant individuals. smile

Reading the 2A to mean individuals is dishonest. Ergo my issue with Scalia.


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
[Linked Image from ]

They wait until the NRA says it's ok to go in.


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Originally Posted by perotista
Definitions of words change over time.

Scalia was a strict Constitutionalist. smile


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
People is plural.
Militia is plural.

I am hard pressed to find singular nouns in those three sentences. smile


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831
Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831
Likes: 180
Quote
It says the people have a right to a militia that can bear arms.

It says...once again...

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The people. All of them. Are granted the right to keep and bear arms by the constitution of the United States.

Because the nation might one day need for them to be armed. Like in Ukraine.

It says what it means and it means what it says. The founders don't need you putting words in their mouths.


Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Correct, as it pertains to “well regulated militias.” I don’t belong to a militia, do you Gregor? The OAF Keepers are not a militia, neither are the 1-percenters.

If I don’t belong to a militia, how is it my right to bear arms?


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
In reading different sites, the historical context is that the US did not have a standing army in 1789, therefore men (white men naturally, no women or slaves) 18 - 45 were conscripted to military service if called upon and they were to bring their own weapons.

I do believe you’re over 45 years old Greger. laugh


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Ps.

Which means my reading of the 2A is correct. cool And, as the link above validates that was how the SCOTUS viewed the 2A intrepatoin as well, until 2008 when Scalia abandoned his "strict constitutionalist" thinking and bent himself into a pretzel to logically explain in a majority opinion why individuals have a right to bear arms.


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430
Likes: 373
Which brings us full circle back to the post that began this discussion;

Quote
Antonin Scalia was deadly wrong when he wrote the majority opinion in 2011-ish that individuals have a right to guns per the 2A.
Execpt this occurred in 2008, not 2011.

smile


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Page 15 of 22 1 2 13 14 15 16 17 21 22

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5