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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,083 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
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I am an originalist on the 2nd.
If a state has a well regulated militia, necessary to defend said state, then the government can not infringe on the right to own arms. The problem is I believe only 23 states have militias, thus the rest can restrict gun ownership. Of the 23, none of them actually levy citizens into the militia for training. Thus they do not have a real militia, ergo those states can restrict gun ownership.
Its what the Founders envisioned. The current conservative ideology, which is a modern bastardized concoction steeped in modern conservative paranoia and further "codified" by Heller, has nothing to do with the original document.
ignorance is the enemy without equality there is no liberty America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
I’ve always had a problem with mandatory age limits. There has to come a time when a child is no longer a child, 18 is as good a number as any. A certain amount of life experience and socialization needs to be achieved in this complex age before you're ready to jump in the deep end. Sexual maturity has been the traditional point at which childhood ends but we have become more than just self-aware livestock. Making folks wait until they are 25 to drive a car or get a job or apartment seems a bit draconian, but Democrats generally have no problems making up all sorts of rules that others should have to follow. Now, if you make taxpayer-funded education mandatory up to age 24 with internships, apprenticeships, and living wage stipends, military service optional but recommended for possible future firearm upgrades. And wrapped it in a package that included Medicare for ALL, I might get on the train.
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373 |
Understanding the Teen Brain It doesn’t matter how smart teens are or how well they scored on the SAT or ACT. Good judgment isn’t something they can excel in, at least not yet. The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part Other brain development studies here, here, and here. Insurance companies and car rental agencies recognize that drivers under 25 statistically get into more auto accidents than other age groups and discourage younger renters by charging them daily surcharges. Their preference is not to rent to under 25 at all. Now, you make taxpayer-funded education mandatory up to age 24 with internships, apprenticeships, and living wage stipends, military service optional but recommended for possible future firearm upgrades. And wrapped it in a package that included Medicare for ALL, I might get on the train. I could go for that too. It makes sense for young adults to learn as much as they can to prepare the to be productive adults. More education and/or training has probably not killed anyone, but impulsive under developed ideas have. 
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
I am an originalist on the 2nd.
If a state has a well regulated militia, necessary to defend said state, then the government can not infringe on the right to own arms. You might be an originalist but that's not what it says. You've added words to it that aren't there. Do I need to quote it here again so you know what it actually says? I appear to be the only originalist here because I believe they said exactly what they meant. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "well regulated militias" include police protection, fire brigades, ambulance services, state troopers, the national guard, the coast guard, and all the branches of the armed forces. They are indeed necessary to the security of each free state and to the United States. Back then it meant armed volunteers, basically it still does. the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. No ifs and or buts, it says what it says. Because you never know when your gonna need a bunch of armed men, men must be allowed to have arms.
That's all it says. But it's the goddam Constitution where rights are laid out and that one is laid out pretty clearly. And once again I ask you to focus on the well regulated part(which stubbornly has no hyphen in a hyphen-philiac spellchecker) Just as the Constitution grants the people the right to keep arms, it claims the right to regulate the arms and the people.
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373 |
I appear to be the only originalist here because I believe they said exactly what they meant. Except as has been pointed out, even the SCOTUS for 219 years read it the way rporter314 read the 2A until Scalia bent himself into a pretzel in 2008.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
Other brain development studies here, here, and here. So do you have a path forward for keeping children at home and supporting them until they are 25? Otherwise you're just inventing fantasy worlds to suit your whims and the bottom line profits for insurance companies. I try to figure out what can actually be done, if anything, in this political environment. We're experiencing an unprecedented wave of criminal violence. Sales of any new assault weapons should stop along with the fancy mags. But that wouldn't change a thing, there are millions of them already out there. Everybody who owns guns has one. If I still owned guns I'd probably have one because they're pretty cool weps. Useless but cool... We need action that works quickly. I'm a big fan of red flag laws. Howzabout tracking the(19) states with red flag laws against states without for me, Pero? Seems as though a pattern might emerge after a while if they work. I'd say all firearm-related deaths including suicides need to be included. I'm also wondering if Covid hasn't infected the brains of some people, turning them violently insane...
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,027 Likes: 98
old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,027 Likes: 98 |
The 18 year old kid who shot his grandmother in the face and then went down to the grade school that he attended (when younger) and shot a bunch of kids obviously has problems . If we had a really good background test and mental problems get reported and there was somebody in his high school that would report kids with problems because that would be one of his/her jobs to spot troubled kids, that would never have happened.
Its also probably of interest that the governor of Texas cut mental health by several million dollars so no such thing was available in his school and, even if it was this stuff, we are told, is rarely reported anyway. I also believe that its the responsibility of the Democrats to get this kind of information out to the voters every chance they get.
I know, wishful thinking!
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
I appear to be the only originalist here because I believe they said exactly what they meant. Except as has been pointed out, even the SCOTUS for 219 years read it the way rporter314 read the 2A until Scalia bent himself into a pretzel in 2008. I'm not sure what you mean, according to wiki Heller "also stated that the right to bear arms is not unlimited and that guns and gun ownership would continue to be regulated."
Could you give me some examples of the SCOTUS ruling against firearm ownership over the previous 219 years...there must be dozens of decisions you can cite...
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373 |
I can only provide analysis of where I got my opinion form. It is here as the "collective rights theory." ...Some scholars point to the prefatory language "a well regulated Militia" to argue that the Framers intended only to restrict Congress from legislating away a state's right to self-defense. Scholars call this theory "the collective rights theory." A collective rights theory of the Second Amendment asserts that citizens do not have an individual right to possess guns and that local, state, and federal legislative bodies therefore possess the authority to regulate firearms without implicating a constitutional right.
In 1939 the U.S. Supreme Court considered the matter in United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174. There, the Court adopted a collective rights approach, determining that Congress could regulate a sawed-off shotgun which moved in interstate commerce under the National Firearms Act of 1934 because the evidence did not suggest that the shotgun "has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia . . . ." The Court then explained that the Framers included the Second Amendment to ensure the effectiveness of the military.
This precedent stood for nearly 70 years until 2008, when the U.S. Supreme Court revisited the issue in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, 478 F.3d 370.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
In all those centuries there's not a single SCOTUS ruling taking away the rights of anyone to keep and bear arms? Just a theory? From 1939? And it stood for about as long as Roe v Wade.
Heller allowed firearms to be regulated. But Congress must create that legislation and it must be reviewed by the current SCOTUS who are reading the 2A just as it is written. Without adding any words to it. Firearms have always been regulated and the 2A has always been there. Sawed-off shotguns used to be a problem, they aren't anymore. Even though they are relatively easy to make. Assault-style weapons are a clear and present danger to American citizens.
Partisanship makes this legislation almost impossible. And that's why I find partisanship so useless and ineffective. From either side. It's the half-black/half-white episode of Star Trek playing out in real life like Groundhog Day...every day I wake up and it's the same stupid sh*t all over again.
Is it any wonder that a lot of folks are just cracking?
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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