Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Foreign Policy & News The long and winding road to Dumbass

You missed my key point completely

The sanctions war was about as thought out as was the neocons ‘full spectrum global domination’ ideology as foriegn policy.

Sure, it helps bidness for some but, on the whole, causes more misery for the many. Europe’s finding that out now. We’re getting there slow but sure. I’m just happy to post the economic and political carnage from the international policies of the Kagans. Nulands, Wolfowitz, Cheney’s, etc. I post about my own experience as a small part of a much larger picture going on.

If you haven’t noticed yet, the neocons are now the dominant foreign policy force of the Democratic Party. Bill Clinton’s Secretary of State was one. Hell, his wife’s another. She occupied Moynihan seat in NY who was, at least, neocon sympathetic. Kagan’s wife, Victoria Nuland was running the Ukraine coup operation in 2014 and is serving as undersecretary of state for that region with Biden.

Robert Kagan, a big round wet fancy lad who looks like he couldn’t wire a house outlet but gets paid huge sums to sit in air conditioned offices to pontificate how he thinks the world should be wired, works at Brookings. The same think tank being investigated for concocting the Russiagate hoax.

Some say neocons were bourgeois left wingers disaffected with the 60’s counterculture. Krauthammer said they were socialist mugged by reality*. Others mention their lineage as a mutant messianic strain of the old trotskyists. I dunno. I wasn’t around then. They looked like poli-sci nerds trying to get laid where the hot chicks were.

Don’t know why you need to shoehorn a hegemonic bureaucratic force that works with either of our rightwing political parties into just one. Nuland was mentored by Cheney, works for Biden, etc..

Naw, this is a frat fight sh!t show by psycho Ivy League fancy lads with their usual upper class bigotry. I’m just like you, working along the river posting the economic carnage that floats by from these overeducated idiots who never pay a price for monstrous failures.

Posting on the war seems pointless as the situation speaks for itself. Probably why no ones posting on it anymore.

* My bad. Looks like it was Irving Krystal that said a neoconservative was a liberal mugged by reality.

Jeffrey Sachs has been writing clear eyed assessments of the situation in Ukraine and it’s causes. A long critic of the neocons, he wrote this piece on US neocon led foreign policy and its possible consequences over a month ago:

‘ The most likely outcome of the current fighting is that Russia will conquer a large swath of Ukraine, perhaps leaving Ukraine landlocked or nearly so. Frustration will rise in Europe and the US with the military losses and the stagflationary consequences of war and sanctions. The knock-on effects could be devastating, if a right-wing demagogue in the US rises to power (or in the case of Trump, returns to power) promising to restore America’s faded military glory through dangerous escalation.’

Ukraine: The Latest Neocon Disaster

Wasn’t it Les Moonves who said Trump may not be good for America but was good for CBS?
Johnson’s out, Schroeder looks ready to fall as does Macron. Draghi’s gotten out while the getting was good. Wonder where it’ll be in 2024 here in the US…

Germany just delivered 30 Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer Gepard tanks to Ukraine so it may not be entirely up to US voters to control the outcome of this conflict. If it ever was...

Like Ron DeSantis? Devastating indeed! I can imagine all sorts of horrible things that could come from that...

But I'm just about willing to bet that the war will have resolved itself by then.

If not then I guess we'll see. He'd relish the role of "wartime president"!

His legal specialty is battlefield law and he's probably well-versed in naval strategy as well.

We could do worse if this is our time to go out in a blaze of glory.

I'd rather pass on that option altogether though.

When has the US voter decided if we should impose state violence on a sovereign nation? The Russiagateworked on multiple levels, one of its chief aims being the demonization of Russians in general, Emanuel Goldstein Putin in particular, to shape public opinion prior to cleaving off more land of the former Soviet Union.

Was it Freud that said we learn to hate the people we plan to harm?

I don’t recall voters ever having any say in domestic policy decisions much less foreign policy. I think you’d have a hard time finding evidence to the contrary. Unless, of course, voters opinions happen to align with ruling class goals. Something our ruling classes spent a great deal of money shaping thru media, think tanks, lobbying etc..if they feel it necessary to do if it helps them achieve their goals. Otherwise, they do what they wanna do, correct?

Ukraine was a years long US ruling class project. Splitting Russia up and extracting its resources was the long term goal, IMO. Pining for the return of the Yeltsin years of Soviet collapse and fortunes made carpetbagging. Did you get to vote on wether we should militarily arm and train one half of Ukraine to shell the other half? Did you vote on the Maidan coup? I sure didn’t. Rather we fix Flynt’s water or get rid of homelessness than chuck billions into offshore tax havens by way of Ukraine but that’s just me. Wish in one hand…

Russiagate should be seen as prologue as well as inept campaign excuses.

When has the US voter ever decided much of anything?

I thought Russiagate was a pack of lies created by the Clinton campaign to link Trump with collusion with a foreign power in relation to his 2016 campaign.

Now you've got the conspiracy going back to the breakup of the former Soviet Union?

Don't the countries formerly annexed by the former Soviet Union deserve a chance to make their own minds up which hegemony they cast their lot in with? Or does Russia retain the right to re-annex any country previously located behind the Iron Curtain?

Is "Iron Curtain" considered offensive language and demoralizing to Russian citizens?

Does the Berlin wall need to be rebuilt to protect the Eastern bloc from Western intervention?

Will Ukraine's people be better off under Russian rule than as an independent nation?

Are they happy that they will soon shed the yoke of Western oppression and rejoin their comrades as Russians from the Ukraine Territory?

I just don't get why I should feel sorry for Russia. None of the players is innocent, none more guilty than the other. It's business as usual on the diplomatic front. You say Putin is justified in his invasion of Ukraine because western diplomats are neo cons.

I say Putin himself is a neocon and it's all a battle of equals. May the best man win!

I think your doing the usual hyperbolic exaggeration when you want to defend your pro war anti-Russia position by mischaracterizing mine.

As far as Ukranians being happy to join the Russian federation, I’m guessing many in the breakaway republics are, yes. I didn’t write the Minsk agreement, don’t blame me for the government in Kiev for not honoring it.

Mebbe the Ukranian government should have kept NATO out of their military and declared themselves neutral.

Annexing? Which part of Ukraine was annexed? The former territory of Galicia, the Austro-Hungarian portion, Polish portion, or the one who’s borders were agreed to after the dissolution of the Soviet Union? What concept of Ukraine are we talking bout now? Is it the one the (ahem) spirited nationalist want without Russian religion or culture. The ‘pure’ Ukraine?

Man, try to keep up. Ukraine was already an independent nation. It’s been in a civil war since a US backed coup. I’m guessing your good with US backed coups?

Putin’s a neocon? How so? Just say your pro war and save the silly questions.

I don't know what your position is, that's why all the hyperbolic questions. I'm neither pro war nor anti Russia. I'm not fond of Vlad the Poisoner and believe that he and he alone is responsible for the current war.


No.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to bone up on Ukrainian history. This war will be over soon and another will crop up someplace else. I'm not going to learn all there is to learn about that one either.

It's like the Trump affair...in a year or so it will all be water under the bridge.

One would think after so many falsehoods and lies our government has been found to have purposefully spread to goad us into all the previous conflicts, it would give some pause. Maybe even examine the veracity if press claims in the NATOsphere. But, if I understand your previous posts, you would rather not note the hand that feeds you. Fair enough. Mebbe Hussein’s WMD will be found in the Donbass, Ghadafi’s world domination weaponry and the p!SS tapes too.

And you accuse me of peddling conspiracies while admitting your ignorance of the subject at hand? Ok, whatever.

Anyway, back to neocon state department incompetence:

Belgian industry is starting to moan under the unprecedented energy crisis we are now in the middle of. For example, the factory of stainless steel producer Aperam in Genk is shut down due to energy prices. “Today we are confronted with an energy bill that is 10 to 15 times larger than in normal times,” CEO Bernard Hallemans told VRT NWS. “We look at the situation from day to day and have to constantly consider whether it makes sense to continue producing.”

Belgian industry is also groaning u...voices are up to 15 times more expensive

Oh, it does! I just don't think they are any worse than the falsehoods and lies of every other government in the world. Except for Donald Trump, he was pretty much the poster boy for lies and falsehoods.

Russiagate.

I gave you a description of what I perceive "Russiagate" to be: A pack of lies meant to damage a political opponent.

You seem to have expanded it into a neocon conspiracy to damage Russia itself, which has succeeded and forced Russia into a war it never wanted. I never said it was a theory, I accept your take on the situation as entirely factual.

It just falls so far out of the realm of things I have any control over that I'm able to ignore it entirely, just as I ignore most of the things going on in the world because there is simply too much to absorb. And nothing I can do to change or affect any of it. Other than that all-important semiannual ritual where I choose someone else to make all the important decisions while I watch from the sidelines.

I'm not going to be needing any stainless steel to speak of but the Belgian workers will probably be given a hefty stipend and be sent to holiday on the Mediterranean during the interim. Or failing that they can emigrate to Russia where energy is cheap and manpower is short.

Meant to provide link to the RAND paper outlining the current policy goals as strategy. Not that a paper necessarily means implementation. It takes a certain strain of ideology and a force of political will to accomplish that. Having the millions of dollars of MIC lobbying at your back helps too.

Overextending and Unbalancing Russia ASSESSING THE IMPACT OF COST-IMPOSING OPTIONS

Anywho, I’ll stop posting on the self inflicted problems of the EU economy committing suicide and the underlying vicious incompetence of its political class. The next few months will speak for themselves. Not thought thru at all while the cheering for war was at maximum volume from the usual quarters.