Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Foreign Policy & News The long and winding road to Dumbass

If there'd never been a 1930 Holodomor genocide I'd have to give your view some credence however because there was such a thing happening, it connects directly TO annexation of the very areas that were attacked first back then.
Not only did they starve Ukrainians to death, the survivors were often transferred to Russia to live out the rest of whatever they had called a life, and Russians were moved INTO those areas which are now, quite understandably, "Russian speaking".
They're Russian speaking because eighty some years ago those transplanted Russians were gifted Ukrainian homes and real estate to settle, which they did.

That'd be kinda like people going to war with Mexico over Tejas, and then moving out as many Mexicans as possible, then bringing in a bunch of white folks, and then a few years later declaring Tejas to be "US Territory" due to, among other things, the fact that there's so many Americans, English speaking American, living there, and then starting maybe ten years ago, invading Baja and declaring it American territory, then invading
Tijuana and Ciudad Jaurez, and citing the significant US corporate investments in all those "maquilladora" factories.

There's an old comedy album about the Kennedys called "The First Family" starring celebrity impersonator Vaughan Meador.



It was a hit album till JFK got murdered.
There's a clip in the album where all the world leaders are gathering at the White House for a diplomatic lunch.
They go around the table asking each leader what kind of sandwich they'd like.
Kruschev responds:

"Oh, you don't have to order special for me, I'll have a bite of everybody else's!"

Sound familiar?



You can skip to 3:07 in the clip to go directly to Kruschev.

For the record, my position dovetails nicely with Garry Kasparov's.


https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1568997370893062146

Wow! Your ink sac has really been squirting. You must have been really spent after that last post. I don’t read it after seeing the usual length and girth starting with your Voldemort rationals.

I get it Jeff. History in the Ukraine started at the Voldemort nothing happened after that until the Russian SMO started in March 2022.

‘It’s all about the Voldemort!’ Pretty much sums you up. Ok, got it.

Hodor, Hodor, Hodor.

I'm not going to Google myself into expertise on Ukrainian history. Nor quote smarter men than me.

I'm going to sit right here in this chair and see how things play out over the winter. La Nina may deliver a very mild winter and thwart Putin's plans to freeze Europe into submission. Or the opposite may happen.

I hear Greece and Turkey are about to get into it again.

Now that Iraq and Afghanistan have wound down the rest of the world will be freer to engage in wars of their own device...

Western propaganda would have me believe that my first observation about this war continues to be true...

Putin has bit off more than he can chew.

Can anyone help me translate "ink sac/ink squirt" and "Voldemort"?
Is there supposed to be hidden meanings in these nonsense phrases?
Seriously, I don't get the meaning behind the repeated babble.

Was there an actual person in Ukraine named Voldemort? I watched the very first Harry Potter film back in 2001 with our kids but I don't honestly remember much about Voldemort except that he hated Harry....it was twenty years ago fer chrissakes.

The only thing I can surmise is that maybe Chunks is convinced the Holodomor wasn't real...I guess that might be similar to Holocaust denial, or am I misunderstanding that?

Please try answering in English, Chunks.
Remember, I am saying please, so that's a hint that you also needn't dive into an eighteen paragraph filibuster dripping with whiny crap.

I know nothing of Holodomor and don't want to.

Squids squirt ink when they are frightened in an attempt to elude predators, perhaps it was a comment on the reactionary nature of your posts?

I don't accept the theorem that "neocons" are responsible for the war. It's a meaningless label tacked onto whoever you want it to fit.

I don't accept that NATO has provoked Russia into war because its members place armaments on their borders to protect themselves from Russia.

This is Russia's war. This is Putin's war. Annexation of territory contrary to international law was the reason for it. It is a war of imperialism against a former member of the USSR.

So far, nobody has come close to changing my mind.

I don’t believe wars are about any one thing. Lots of moving parts to haul countries to the edge of war. Doesn’t take much after that to shove them over the edge into war.

Dismiss neocons all you want. They are a thing in the same way that other political economic schools of thought are a thing. They have their think tanks, produce white papers, have their spokespeople to go on Sunday morning tv, etc.. they are the dominant force with regard to US foreign policy, IMO. They are very much more a thing than a ‘progressive’ (whatever that is) or a political left party in the US or Russiagate (more of a PR strategy than anything). Their track record of shoving the US into military conflicts as they are doing now is a thing. I have seen no diplomacy on the US’s part to avoid this conflict. This thread was started with the Russians having lost patience with their years long efforts at diplomacy in settling the Ukraine conflict.

Ukraine is not a NATO member. Placing weapons systems on Russia’s border might ‘feel’ like something that shouldn’t be a problem. Clearly, from the Russians point of view, it very much is. The Cuban missile crises is a handy example of our country’s view of having weapons systems placed near our borders. The Monroe doctrine is another. So why should another country have to suck it? Especially a resource rich, industrialized country with a formidable military.

Creating a cassis belli in the Ukraine and getting the hoped for reaction kinda undermines your opinion of it being a Russian war. We provoked. We got what we wanted after all. If this isn’t what State wanted then our activity there as well seems hard to understand.

Ive only been saying careful what you wish for. Sh!t happens. Dedollarization, destabilizing the continent, the rise of rightwing politics thru out Europe, escalation to the jackpot, etc..

I’ve given you my take on the holdomor. You want to dismiss all recent history of what’s taking place by distraction to a particular catastrophe almost a hundred years ago. Conveniently stepping over all the other unsavory Ukraine history between then and now.

Frankly, trying to tie this civil war turned NATO proxy war to one disaster at central planning, among several, at that time is hardly accurate. Eastern Europe has been a hot bed of ethnic rivalries, clashes and wars for centuries.

But you know me Jeff. MAGA tankie holocaust deniers are gunna MAGA tankie holocaust deny.

Squirt squirt..

Doesn't matter if it happened a hundred years ago, and it happened a couple of generations ago anyway, and it is indeed the reason WHY parts of Eastern Ukraine are "Russian speaking". Simply put, a generation of Ukrainians disappeared because Russia put Russians in Ukrainian houses, literally...and said "You live here now".

What happened to all the Ukrainians who lived there? Killed, mostly.
You can scream "LALALALALA I can't hear you" till you're green in the face but the fact is, if Canada did that to New York and Boston, Americans would snarl when they heard "French Speaking Canadian territories" in the news because families from Brooklyn would look up and see their old homes and neighborhoods.
You don't get to just dismiss that with a wave of your hand and mumble about Voldemort and make vague references to squirting.
Tying these events together is entirely accurate. The area was Ukraine until Russia decided it wasn't and Ukraine hasn't forgotten. And what's more, given recent progress, Ukraine intends nothing less than putting the map back to where it was prior to Russia's ethnic cleansing two generations ago. It's all connected, like it or not.

Your take on Holodomor sounds like "Yawn, long time ago, doesn't matter".
You're right, it does sound tankie...it does sound "denial-y".

Oh...I guess I'm a squid. A reactionary one, it seems.