I don’t believe wars are about any one thing. Lots of moving parts to haul countries to the edge of war. Doesn’t take much after that to shove them over the edge into war.

Dismiss neocons all you want. They are a thing in the same way that other political economic schools of thought are a thing. They have their think tanks, produce white papers, have their spokespeople to go on Sunday morning tv, etc.. they are the dominant force with regard to US foreign policy, IMO. They are very much more a thing than a ‘progressive’ (whatever that is) or a political left party in the US or Russiagate (more of a PR strategy than anything). Their track record of shoving the US into military conflicts as they are doing now is a thing. I have seen no diplomacy on the US’s part to avoid this conflict. This thread was started with the Russians having lost patience with their years long efforts at diplomacy in settling the Ukraine conflict.

Ukraine is not a NATO member. Placing weapons systems on Russia’s border might ‘feel’ like something that shouldn’t be a problem. Clearly, from the Russians point of view, it very much is. The Cuban missile crises is a handy example of our country’s view of having weapons systems placed near our borders. The Monroe doctrine is another. So why should another country have to suck it? Especially a resource rich, industrialized country with a formidable military.

Creating a cassis belli in the Ukraine and getting the hoped for reaction kinda undermines your opinion of it being a Russian war. We provoked. We got what we wanted after all. If this isn’t what State wanted then our activity there as well seems hard to understand.

Ive only been saying careful what you wish for. Sh!t happens. Dedollarization, destabilizing the continent, the rise of rightwing politics thru out Europe, escalation to the jackpot, etc..

Last edited by chunkstyle; 09/13/22 02:20 PM.