Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Elections 2024 2024 Election Forum

You typed that as if it each side made a true and valid claim. It's the equivalent to Trump saying there are fine people on both sides.

OMG ... No reasonably objective person would conclude Trump represents Democracy. How do I know? Just read what he has said at any rally of your choice. If you believe any of that represents saving Democracy ... well then ... perhaps you should reacquaint yourself with the Constitution and the Federalist papers. No where does anything Pres Biden has done leads to an end of Democracy ... unless you can point it out, which I would appreciate, as it would alleviate MY ignorance.

I make no case for the MAGA Base as it is more a cult than a political party, and thus they will do and believe whatever Trump says. The key phrase is reasonably objective. Since I already know the vast majority of the American electorate is ignorant and stupid, I am addressing the remaining few reasonably objective persons. Are there enough of these folks left in America to save it from Trump and his brownshirts of retribution, as Democracy swirls down the drain.

I don't know. Weathermen forecast ... bleak.

Do you think that there is a possibility that there are enough members, in the house, from both parties, that could sit down and do the job the entire house is supposed to be doing? One reads that there might be and then we have the members who are quitting because they think there is not.

I also realize that there are members of the house, on both sides, that will not even speak to anybody on the other side. Its a pity if there is not. It would be interesting if there were enough members, if they could work together they could actually do something. How about getting rid of every member that cannot even speak to the other side let alone work with them.

I really think that when a member cannot do anything with the other side they should go home. Both sides working has always been the way they got stuff done. Now, there are so many that are unable to do their jobs that there should be some way to move them away. The reason would be that "they were unable to do their job" and that seems fair to me. If you are working for somebody, and you cannot do your job, you will no longer have a job! This has nothing to do with one side or the other but with those that make up one side or the other.

I continue to wonder, however, if there are any Democrats who, given the above, cannot do their jobs?

Rporter, what these polls and articles are doing is letting us know how all Americans think, feel, want, etc. I used to do election forecasts, it was important in coming up with those forecasts to have all the information that is available whether one agrees with it or not. I’m still the same way. I want to know what all Americans of all stripes are thinking, wanting. The problem is most polls just gives you numbers, not the reasons behind those numbers. Then we get into opinions as to why.

Now you know why all this talk, rhetoric about Trump destroying democracy from the democrats isn’t taking hold, it’s not working, it’s not drawing any voters to Biden or away from Trump or some other candidate or even the undecided which there are but a few. It’s time to change tactics, to throw that destroy democracy rhetoric out the window even if one believes it and fears that it is true. The idea, the goal here is to win an election, to defeat Trump.

If I was advising Biden campaign team, I’d tell them to stop bashing Trump. To begin highlighting Biden accomplishments as president which he has a lot. To go positive for a while. Folks here on this site know what Biden has accomplished, but out there among the masses, most don’t. Remember, most Americans aren’t political junkies. Most aren’t even following the presidential race. Then I’d let Trump be Trump. Let Trump defeat Trump. I think most Americans have tired of all the negative personal attack ads, they’ve come to expect them, to ignore them. What I’m saying is give the people a reason to vote for Biden, not just against Trump. Let Trump provide the reasons for voting against him. Sounds crazy, probably is. But knowledge of what people are thinking, wanting, feeling can be used in a successful positive campaign. That would be something we haven’t seen since Reagan. Reagan used a positive campaign and won two landslide victories. Bush Sr. started with the negative campaign in 1988 which worked, every candidate since has used negative personal attacks against their opponents.

Jgw, my knee jerk reaction is to say no. But then again, there probably are enough. But they’ve been cowed by the extremist on both sides. More so on the GOP side. But also, on the Democratic side. Fear of retribution certainly exists if one works with the other side.

That's what I feared is happening. What this means is that we have a congressional house where EVERYBODY needs to be replaced! Reason is simple, they are stuck and cannot do their jobs. The people on both sides who are actually willing to talk to the other side should probably setup another group. They could call it something like; Politicians Trying to Do Their Jobs I know, its not gonna happen but it would be good if they would. I think the other problem is that each side, in either party, fears the loons and jerks. Its truly a shame. Its a shame for the voters who screwed up, its a shame for the members of the congress who could actually do their jobs if they actually tried and didn't fear the wrath of their crazys, etc.

It would also be nice if our media actually reported who might, or might not, actually work with folks of like mind in the other side. Maybe all they need is a little push?

As an aside the Republicans are going to now try and pass a bill to take care of the southern border even though they have one which was put together by both sides that Trump forbid to get done. One would think that they might take a run at going after their existing loons and crazies. The republicans are so crazy they are going to ignore the bill that would give them both laurels and, instead, prove that they are all jackasses.

It’s a congress that where the more moderates, those willing to work with the other side, compromise and play that old political game of give and take from both parties won’t. Mainly because they don’t want to feel the wrath of the extremist within their parties. This is in my opinion much more prevalent within the GOP than the Democratic Party.

You have Trump who isn’t the speaker or even a member of congress controlling what the Republican House members do. Then there are the Trump surrogates like MTG, Gaetz, Boebert, etc., some 20-25 members running roughshod over all the rest of the Republican House members. You have this from MTG today:Marjorie Taylor Greene delivers fresh threats of ousting Speaker Johnson in scathing letter

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...sting-speaker-johnson-in-scathing-letter



The Democrats have their squad. But they pale in comparison. Still they don’t want to let any other democrat work with republicans. Biden doesn’t interfere with the democrats in the house. I don’t know what to make of Jeffries, he hasn’t been in that job long enough. But being in the minority, squabbles within the Democratic House members rarely get the media attention the republicans in the majority does. Although all that media attention is well deserved.

One last thing, since this is the election thread, here’s the latest generic congressional ballot.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/state-of-the-union/2024/generic-congressional-vote

As of today, going district by district, the democrats have 23 seats at risk vs. 21 republican seats at risk of switching. What this means either via the generic congressional ballot or district by district is either party could gain or lose 5-8 seats. The house like the presidential is a 50-50 shot as to who wins or who gains or loses control.

First it i not just the Democrats who are saying Trump is a danger to Democracy, it is a whole list of former Republican employees of Trump, former high level government officials, both partisan and not, including from the military, Constitutional attorneys, etc. Why is it not taking hold? How about the American electorate is simply ignorant and stupid. If you have seen any interviews of MAGA people, you would know how ignorant, stupid, and bigoted they are. These folks are in a political cult, so they will never change their mind. Only people not in the cult should be addressed. Are these folks too ignorant stupid not to realize what dangerous rhetoric Trump uses, or are they simply MAGA in disguise? What I do know is the Trump propaganda machine has baked in the misinformation and disinformation, so it will not make any difference touting Pres Biden's achievements.

We are on the precipice of the most precipitous election since the 1860 election. Democracy is on the line. Policy issues will not persuade the ignorant and stupid, however the threat of losing their freedom to a dictator may.

Rporter, I don’t know why 62% of all Americans think democrats stating Trump is a threat to democracy is nothing more than scare tactics to stop them from voting for Trump. I can, however, take an educated guess. Over the last 2-3 decades both major parties have basically run nothing but personal political negative attack ads during an election campaign season. Probably most Americans have become numb to them, taking them as nothing more than a vote for my candidate as the opposing candidate is the evilest scumbag on the face of the earth. It’s both parties trying to get the voter to hate their opponent more than they hate yours. Most just shrug at all of this talk, they don’t take it seriously. Just another normal negative personal attack during an election season.

After 20-30 years of this, running all these negative personal political attacks ads, who’s going to believe them? Most are just chalking Trump is a threat to democracy up to a scare tactic to get them to vote for Biden. What’s more interesting is you have roughly the same percentage of all Americans who believe Biden is as much a threat to democracy as Trump is.

To this question - CBS News Poll – February 28 - March 1, 2024 Adults in the U.S. Question 49. U.S. Democracy and Rule of Law Do you think U.S. democracy and rule of law will be safe...Broken down by all adults and via party.
Only if Biden wins All 34%, 70% of democrats, 27% of independents, 3% of Republicans
Only if Trump wins All 33%, 4% of democrats, 31% of independents, 67% of Republicans
It will be safe if either wins All 13%, 12% of democrats, 15% of independents, 13% of republicans
It will not be safe either way or regardless of who wins All 20%, 14% of democrats, 27% of independents, 13% of republicans.

https://www.scribd.com/document/710089283/cbsnews-20240303-1-SUN#1fullscreen=1

First, I know you have a very broad definition of what constitutes a negative ad. Thus, I believe you believe any criticism of an opponent is a negative ad. Based on that definition, I completely understand why the "electorate" views those kinds of adds "negatively". However, I believe if a so-called negative add is substantive, it would not be viewed the same, by reasonable people. Thus if I were to list an opponents voting record, we would know what an opponent believes and would support. Thus if such a candidate voted for bans on abortion, any ad including that would in my view be a legitimate use of information.

Using your broad definition a candidate who was a mass murdering, pedophile, fraudster would be exempt from any "negative" ads mentioning his proclivities. Does that seem like a good use of campaign ads?

The difference between whether Trump is a danger to Democracy and Pres Biden is a danger, is one of substance. I can list many substantive true and valid things which would make Trump a danger to Democracy, while I can not thing a substantive, true or valid thing which would make Pres Biden a threat to Democracy. Now, I can think of a number of policy issues for which people object and would hyperbolically believe would be a threat, but in each case Democracy is not in the balance.

MAGA would believe God is a threat to Democracy if God was Trump's opponent. So any polling which includes MAGA is skewed and clearly leads to inappropriate and inaccurate conclusions. While there is certainly a core group of Democrats who would view Trump as a threat, they would not view Liz Cheney as a threat. That is the difference. What explains the independents? Ignorance!

Let me explain. If you lay out a table and compare what Trump has said and done (as a threat to Democracy) and what Pres Biden has done and said (which someone could view as a threat), there would be no equivalency. It would be clear one list has policy issues, while the other has actual threats.

In the movie "An American President" there is a line which goes, the presidency is all about character. If that is true, and I believe it should be, then everything a candidate does and says should be considered. Thus, we have one candidate, who has been convicted of fraud, has led several fraudulent enterprises, sexually assaults women, defames people, and has been indicted on a number of charges for crimes against the country. All of this should be considered for the question, is this person fit to occupy the WH? The other candidate has none of those "problems". What he does have is some questionable decisions in the public arena, after which he has evolved and changed his positions, but he is not a fraud, he has not been indicted for criminal activities, and he doesn't assault women. He is old, but so is the other candidate. Fitness? How can there be any question, who is fit?

I believe current polling has been so skewed by the polarization of politics, it has become useless to understand and explain anything politically. See my arguments above. How could any reasonable person in normal times select a criminal as a viable candidate for the presidency? This can only happen today, and that is precisely why Trump is a threat to Democracy. He has an actual chance of winning outright (and certainly may invoke his sycophants in state governments and in the House to subvert the elections results and anoint trump as president). The courts don't have any power to set the ship aright. The military may intervene on behalf of the Constitution, but I am not holding my breathe. I watched an interview of John Bolton, who believes Trump is not a threat to Democracy but is unfit. All I can say is Bolton is delusional. Anyone who believes Trump will not do whatever it takes to become president has been drinking kooky juice.

I am the mad man from the mountains shouting for anyone to hear ... for I know I will become an enemy of the state should Trump win

I think that the polls are not always correct. After each election we get told that was the case, every time! So, basically, we will simply have to vote and see what happens. I get a lot of stuff from Trump (never figured out why). They are, basically, lying about just about everything I can see. All that being said they are doing a good job of doing it nice and easey as if its all the truth. I don't get anything from the Dems except asks for more money and little else. The TV tells me that Biden is going to have wonders to behold as the Dems are very rich. I can't say anything about their ads because I have never seen even one.

I do believe that the Democratic party, as far as I am concerned, is not doing a whole lot about ANYTHING! The people that are actually working to win is the Republicans! Then, we have a president, who doesn't seem to understand that to win he has to make certain groups happy. One of those are the Muslim Dems who remain upset and unwilling to vote for him and there are others as well. If he explained he is trying, real hard, to set them up with their own country things might change. The Dems have got to start an education effort to point out where the Republicans are lying big time but I have no faith any of that is going to happen, at least in the State of Washington. I have actually emailed the Democrat party and asked them question as to what they are doing. Their reply was pretty simple; "Give us money!"

I am going to vote for Biden as I don't have a choice. If Trump wins its gonna be another disaster and I don't think we have enough money to make him happy. I often wonder, if he gets elected how long it will take him to collapse our economy big time.

Should mention that the medium is doing a fair job noting that the Republicans are working, really hard, to promote Russian lies. They are giving names, etc. So, at least, somebody is fighting back.

All that being said I REALLY want Biden to win. Trump scares the hell out of me.