Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Elections 2024 2024 Election Forum

I find the entire thing very, very, strange. When Trump was president things were not even close to how things are today. The good old days of Trump were a disaster. That being said Trump is constantly telling everybody how absolutely wonderful things were when he was president and, when he does, the crowds scream with wonder, and belief, at what he says. They do that because they actually believe everything that man says!! That, I think, is the miracle. He has always claimed greatness. The only business he had, that worked, was the one he got from his daddy which was run by the man daddy put in charge. He was a magnificent business man, admired by all. What is absolutely ignored is that anything he touched failed. The only real success was in politics! Hell, he actually, bunkoed a gambling establishment!! He had 6 bankruptcies! EVERYTHING he tried failed. The problem is that was fact, and he simply does not deal in fact. There are books about that one yet nobody cares. What his admirers believe is what comes out of his mouth and deny anything else! At the end of his business stuff nobody would do work for him unless he paid up front! (that was because he simply did not pay his bills). There was a big pile of bills he never paid. That is where he learned that one could stretch out stuff in the courts to the point where people simply gave up. We are, these days, experiencing his expertise in this one.

When we all grew up we were told fairy stories about the fairies who were always right and were amazed about them. Somehow Trump became one of the great fairies of the ages and remains so, for a LOT of people to this day. I understand what is going on, most of you do too. We just don't know why or how. I expect, sometime in the future, it will be explained and then we are all going to say something like; Oh, now I understand, how could I have not seen it!! I expect most of us have had that happen a couple times, now and then. That's never going to change.

Its just taking us a long time, this time...............

rporter -I think you have me confused with Greger as to your quotes. As for the polling dynamics and the breakdown via party to include independents, that hasn’t changed since 1980. The candidates have, the importance of different issues have, but in 1980 both major parties’ strength was about 75% whereas today those who identify with both major parties have fallen below 60%. Independents play a much larger role today than in 1980 because there’re a heck of a lot more of them than in the past.

Today, independents are breaking for Trump 38-34 over Biden hence Trump leading in the polls by a couple of points. Biden won independents 54-41 over Trump in 2020. What this tells me is after 4 years of the Biden presidency, independents have really soured on Biden. Although they haven’t went over to Trump, he’s dropped also. All of this falls back into the category of most independents not wanting neither Trump nor Biden as their next president. One knows exactly how republicans and democrats will vote. That’s approximately 58% of the electorate to use Gallup’s figures. How independents break, still unknown. But I’d use 2016 as an example. That year independents like this year disliked and didn’t want neither major party candidate as their next president. They ended up voting for Trump 46-42 over Clinton with 12% voting third party. There were a lot of independents staying home, not voting as independents made up just 26% of those who actually voted. In 2020 many more independents went to the polls, they made up 30% of those who voted, they also switched to Biden, 54-41 over Trump. A swing of 17 points. Third party independent voters dropped from 12% down to 5%.

Independents still dislike and don’t want Trump the same as they didn’t in 2020. But this year, they also dislike and don’t want Biden whereas in 2020, they did want Biden to beat the heck out of Trump. That’s a difference democrat’s refuse to acknowledge. The difference is I, as a swing voter who doesn’t want Trump back in the white house, who would vote for Atilla the Hun before Trump. I recognize the huge difference between 2020 and 2024. I don’t turn a blind eye to that difference. I’ll point the difference out. Maybe that’s a pox on me. But believe me, the situation today isn’t all roses. Biden not being Trump was enough for a good-sized win in 2020. Biden not being Trump isn’t enough this year.

No doubt that Biden has brought stability and sanity back to the white house, governance in general. Bread isn’t 1.50 anymore, it’s 3.00. Gas isn’t 2.50 a gallon, it’s 3.50 or more. Rent has gone up, food has gone up, clothes and shelter has gone up, the whole cost of living has gone up. The standard of living has dropped for many. This is why a lot of those today think things were better 4 years ago.

The chaos of the Trump years is forgotten. The steadiness of the Biden presidency is ignored. It’s lost in the personal standings of each individual’s life, their own personal situation. I like Joe, always have going back to when he was a senator from Delaware. Even though I like Biden, I still think he’s the wrong candidate to ensure Trump’s defeat this year. In 2020, Biden was the ideal candidate to beat Trump, not this year. Biden may be in fact, the weakest candidate the democrats could offer. Time will tell.

You're not doing a good job "pointing out the difference"...God help us if you ever get hired to do so.

All you're doing is excusing and perpetuating the Republican lie about (Democratic) presidents controlling prices.
Tell me you're a shill for Trump without telling me you're a shill for Trump because only MAGA is invested IN the lie.
And once Trump is in office the lie will cease and it will morph into "globalists" or The Chinese, or "woke leftists" or ... literally ... anyone who does not bow down to him.

Maybe even The Jews, depending on how much they kow-tow. No one is safe.
And around professional Trump apologists in Biden supporter clothing, the truth isn't safe either.
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I take it you don’t care what all Americans are thinking or how all Americans are viewing this very unwanted rematch. One can either face the truth on how things stand today with this rematch or one can lock themselves in the bathroom, close one’s eyes not giving an owl’s hoot about everyone outside that locked bathroom door. I can’t do that. You apparently can.

I don’t think I’ve said anything bad about Biden outside of the obvious fact that most Americans don’t want him reelected. The same holds true for Trump, most Americans don’t want him to regain the white house. Such is/was the wisdom of both major parties in choosing the two most unwanted and disliked candidates to run against each other for the presidency of the United States. I had no control over that, no say. Whatever happens, whatever the future may hold, the blame doesn’t lie with me, I’d say blame lies with both major parties in who they chose as their candidates. I’d say most Americans think this rematch is some cruel joke being played on them by both major parties. The fact remains, this rematch is exactly what both major parties wanted. One way or the other, all of us will have to live with their choices.

You sound like a more concerned version of Jonah Goldberg.

The reason why is because conservatives have been conditioned to believe there are no good liberals or democrats. Don't believe me? Read the comments section of Fox News.com.

The FACT that these people would choose an adjudicated sexual assaulter, adjudicated business fraudster, who has 88-felony grand jury indictments and who calls our troops “suckers” and “losers,” who had sex with a porn star while his wife was pregnant with the man's child, over a good, decent man who at least has the average American's back, validates the above paragraph.

How exactly do things stand today in your view?

Short version. It’s 50-50. The reason is many of those who stayed home in 2016 but came out to vote in 2020 going for Biden by a 68-30 margin which equates to most of the 7 plus million votes Biden won the election by. A good many according to the polls are planning on staying home rather than choose between two disliked and unwanted candidates. When one dislikes and doesn’t want neither major party candidate, there’s little reason to go vote. Hence you have Trump leading Biden by a couple of points today.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/po...ump-vs-biden-vs-kennedy-vs-west-vs-stein

In 2020 these new voters wanted Trump gone, they disliked him, but liked Biden. Biden was an acceptable alternative to Trump. In 2024, Biden is now president, not Trump. Trump has become the alternative to Biden. They’ve changed places. But Trump isn’t an acceptable alternative to Biden this year as Biden was an acceptable alternative to Trump in 2020.

Things look bleak for Biden today. He trails in every battleground, swing state.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024/battleground-states

The good news is these swing voters, new voters who didn’t vote in 2016, but did in 2020, haven’t gone over to Trump. The bad news is they’ve left Biden by indicating they’re going to stay home. Making Trump the benefactor of addition by subtraction. It’s early though. The campaign season hasn’t started in earnest. Somehow these new voters in 2020 who didn’t vote in 2016 must be reenergized to go back to the polls this year to vote for Biden. How Biden can accomplish that, I don’t know. That is the big question, how to get folks back to the polls when they don’t want neither major party candidate.

I was talking to some Gen Z’s in Seattle on Saturday night. They’re very upset with Joe - mostly because of the Palestinian genocide that Israel is foisting on Gaza, that they are not going to vote.

Yesterday was primary day in three states. Trump won the GOP majority - Nimrata Haley got 30% of the vote - even though she dropped out 45 days ago.

A lot of folks won’t be voting this year.

Personally, I think ol’ Joe should have been one and done. He says the only reason he running again is to keep Trump out of office. Had Trump not decided to run for a third time, ol’ Joe would have passed the reins. I agree, ol’ Joe is the only one that can beat Trump.

…and here we are.