0 members (),
5
guests, and
0
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums59
Topics17,124
Posts314,374
Members6,305
|
Most Online294 Dec 6th, 2017
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,324 Likes: 18
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,324 Likes: 18 |
I just don't get it.
Everything I am seeing today, indicates that almost all of the GOP/MAGA politicians, want to end our democracy. Why?
I have heard nothing from those GOP/MAGA elected about how they are going to bring down the price of eggs or gas. I am only hearing about how they want to tear down our democracy from every angle!
Is it just the politicians, or is it true that almost 50% of voters want to end our democracy? It makes no sense to me at all. The end of our democracy will cause them the same pains it will cause non-GOP/MAGA folks! Once it is gone, those that rule our country will not care who they hurt to get what they want - MAGA or not!
I just don't get it at all!!
Does anyone have any ideas on this? It would be nice to hear from a GOP/MAGA follower to see what their answer is!
Good doesn't always win!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,998 Likes: 132
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,998 Likes: 132 |
I've recently subscribed to Heather Cox Richardson's daily thoughts - this is from yesterday. I think it puts things into perspective pretty well. Heather Cox Richardson; December 16, 2024Today, President Joe Biden designated a new national monument in honor of Frances Perkins, secretary of labor under President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The first female Cabinet secretary, Perkins served for twelve years. She took the job only after getting FDR to sign on to her goals: unemployment insurance, health insurance, old-age insurance, a 40-hour work week, a minimum wage, and abolition of child labor. She later recalled: “I remember he looked so startled, and he said, ‘Well, do you think it can be done?’”
She promised to find out.
Once in office, Perkins was a driving force behind the administration’s massive investment in public works projects to get people back to work. She urged the government to spend $3.3 billion on schools, roads, housing, and post offices. Those projects employed more than a million people in 1934.
In 1935, FDR signed into law the Social Security Act that she designed and negotiated, providing ordinary Americans with unemployment insurance; aid to homeless, dependent, and neglected children; funds to promote maternal and child welfare; and public health services.
In 1938, Congress passed the Fair Labor Standards Act, which established a minimum wage and maximum hours. It banned child labor.
The one area where Perkins fell short of her goals was in establishing public healthcare. It was not until 2010 that President Barack Obama signed into law the Affordable Care Act.
Perkins’s work to build FDR’s New Deal sparked the modern American state.
Before Perkins, the primary function of the federal government was to manage the economic relationships between labor, capital, and resources. Property rights, after all, had been the basis on which North American colonists had found the justification to rebel against the British crown, and that focus on the relationships inherent in property ownership had continued to dominate the government American lawmakers built.
But Perkins recognized that the central purpose of government was not to protect property; it was to protect the communities of people who lived in the nation. She recognized that children, the elderly, women, and disabled Americans, all of whom contributed to society whether or not that contribution was recognized with a paycheck, were as valuable to the survival of a community as male workers and the wealthy men who employed them.
“The people are what matter to government,” she said, “and a government should aim to give all the people under its jurisdiction the best possible life.”
A majority of Americans of both parties liked the new system, but the reworking of the government shocked those who had previously dominated the country. As soon as the Social Security Act passed, opponents set out to destroy it along with the rest of the new system. A coalition of Republican businessmen who hated both business regulation and the taxes that paid for social programs, racists who opposed the idea of equal rights for racial and ethnic minorities, and religious traditionalists—especially Southern Baptists—who opposed the recognition of women’s equal rights, joined together to fight against the New Deal.
Their undermining of Perkins’s vision got little traction when they were attacking business regulation and taxes to support social services. Voters liked those things. But it began to attract supporters after 1954, when the Supreme Court handed down the Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas, decision requiring the desegregation of public schools. That decision enabled those opposed to the New Deal to harness racism to their cause, warning American voters that a government that protected everyone would mean a government that used tax dollars paid by white Americans to benefit Black Americans.
Religious traditionalists’ role in undermining the New Deal grew in the 1970s. The new system dramatically expanded women’s rights, and when President Richard Nixon’s people worried he would lose reelection in 1972, they quite deliberately used the issue of abortion to claim that “women’s liberation” was destroying the family structure that religious traditionalists believed mirrored God’s relationship to his human flock.
By 1979, religious traditionalists had rejected the modern move toward women’s rights and made common cause with Republicans eager to derail the New Deal. In 1980 the support of those traditionalists put Republican president Ronald Reagan into the White House. Their influence grew in the 1990s as white evangelicals became the base of the Republican Party. By 2016 they had brought into the Republican Party a determination to reinstate a male-dominated, patriarchal world that resurrected the government Frances Perkins’s vision had replaced.
That impulse has grown until now, in 2024, attacks on women have become central to the destruction of the kind of government Frances Perkins helped to establish during the New Deal. Religious extremists in the Republican Party have in some states reduced or prevented women’s access to healthcare and are talking about taking away women’s right to vote, and the party itself has downgraded the role of women in society. When House Republicans released a list of their committee leaders for the next Congress last Thursday, there were no women on it. For the first time in 20 years, no House committees will be chaired by women.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
|
1 member likes this:
pdx rick |
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,324 Likes: 18
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,324 Likes: 18 |
Interesting theory.
I suspect, that this is only one angle though. When I read this, I thought, you could replace "women" with "black", "Islamic", or some similar demographic, and it would read almost the same.
I guess it is about to come to a head, no matter the demographic. I just find it hard to believe that almost half of our voters still hold these barbaric ideals.
Good doesn't always win!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,998 Likes: 132
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,998 Likes: 132 |
You make a good point.
One thought is that the major psychological element in play is not barbaric ideals, or ideology - it's numbskullery. Most of the younger generation, and probable the middle aged folks, too, don't have much lived knowledge/experience of the historical blatant bigotry and prejudice and the changes that have happened over the last century. In general, life is pretty easy, even if you are relatively poor, and I think that there is minimal thinking going on besides does my phone have good service, and is McDonald's open, and I want a new car.
Trump, the King of the Kon Men, is riding on a wave of disinformation and lying that has been building since Reagan, and people are numb and gullible. He said, "Inflation is killing you and it's the Democrats' fault, and I'll fix it", and he was believed. He said, "I'm the victim of lawfare, the court system is rigged! And you're next!", and the numbskulls believed it. It's cult behavior - and you can't reason with cult followers.
I don't have a solution, my sense is that it's going to have to blow itself out. Unless a counter-balancing charismatic Good Witch cult leader emerges, as Trump's house of cards caves in on him, we are probably going have to weather some hard times. The only words of encouragement that come to mind are, always do your best, and be responsible.
And I'm glad I learned how to make whiskey and gin!
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,956 Likes: 61
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,956 Likes: 61 |
Trump’s thirst for vengeance, revenge has started before he even took office. “President-elect Donald Trump has long suggested he would try to prosecute his political opponents, and House Republicans delivered him a new opening on Tuesday through a report recommending that GOP former Rep. Liz Cheney be prosecuted by the FBI for her role in probing the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol.” https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/18/politics/jan-6-house-gop-trump-liz-cheney/index.htmlThen you have Trump threatening republicans if they don’t do, vote as he says. He’s already began to rule through fear, threats and retaliation. WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The U.S. Congress has two days as of Thursday to avert a partial government shutdown after President-elect Donald Trump rejected a bipartisan deal on federal spending and demanded lawmakers address the nation's debt ceiling before he takes office next month. “Trump told his fellow Republicans in Congress to reject a stopgap bill that would keep the government funded past the deadline of midnight on Friday (0500 GMT Saturday), saying that any of them who voted for the bipartisan bill should face primary challenges from within their own party in the 2026 midterm elections.” And "Any Republican that would be so stupid as to do this should, and will, be Primaried," Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform.” https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-congress-two-days-avert-060521820.htmlMAGA, avid Trumpers make up around a quarter of the electorate. Which means that half of the votes Trump received in November came from non-MAGA, non-Trumpers. Unlike most on this site, being a swing voter, I can understand why they voted the way they did. I don’t agree with them but understand the reason why. They didn’t vote for Trump, their vote was against Biden, his administration and the job they perceive Biden and company did. They voted against inflation, rising prices. Against illegal immigration. Against Harris, but not for Trump. Voting against a candidate, party isn’t unusual. Around a quarter to a third of all those who vote in any given presidential election, vote against a candidate or party, not for anyone. They don’t care who wins, as long as the candidate, party they voted against loses. No thought of Trump, his vindictiveness was given a single thought. They believed they were worst off today than they were 4 years ago which a trip to the grocery store proved to them. Can one blame these folks for voting their pocketbooks without any other thoughts as to who and what they were voting for? Voting one’s pocketbook is a time-honored tradition. 48% of all voters stated they were better off 4 years ago than today. Trump won these voters 60-38 over Harris. Pocket book issues put Trump back into the white house. 32% of all those who voted decided who to vote for based on their pocketbook. No thought to anything else.
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,324 Likes: 18
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,324 Likes: 18 |
It sounds to me like Trump is committing extortion! Why isn't anyone doing something? Do we have no more people left that are not scared of a pathetic little man?!?? We are in for a world of hurt for the next few generations! This is going to be multi-generational I think. Can one blame these folks for voting their pocketbooks without any other thoughts as to who and what they were voting for? Yes!! I too mostly vote against a candidate, not for the other. I, however, also look at the whole candidate. There are elections that I didn't go vote because I couldn't vote for either candidate. There are times I voted for 3rd party. Those are the times I voted for a candidate instead of against one. Most of my life times were tough. I didn't shirk my responsibility on knowing something about who i am voting for! If Trump were my only option, I would not have voted because I payed some attention to his rhetoric. Even if I only voted for one reason, I still looked at the whole candidate. So yes. I will hold them accountable when we lose our democracy. I will thank the people I know that voted for him for getting us in this mess every time!
Good doesn't always win!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,956 Likes: 61
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,956 Likes: 61 |
No, at least not any republican will stand up to Trump. Main reason is they want to keep their job and they know Trump has the power to primary them out of office. Cheney, Romney, Kitzinger and a couple of more did defy Trump. Come next year, none of the defyers will be in elected office. One can blame those non-MAGA Trumpers who voted for Trump if one wants. But where does the blame lie? Perhaps the blame for Trump’s win lies with the democrats. In 2020 37% of those who turned out to vote were democrats vs. 35% who were republicans. The democrats held a 2-point party affiliation advantage in 2020 over the republicans. But in 2024, the democrats increased their party affiliation to a 3-point advantage, but democrats made up only 31% of those who actually voted vs. the same 35% for the republicans. I’m still trying to figure out why so many democratic Biden voters turned out and voted in 2020, but in 2024 stayed home not bothering to vote for Harris. After all, swing voters did vote for Harris 49-46 over Trump. Had the democratic base turned out, Harris would have won and probably won fairly easy. Why didn’t they? The democrats had the numerical advantage, more democrats than republicans, but a lot of them, democrats just didn’t vote. Why would there be so many split party tickets in Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, Arizona which voted for Trump for president, then voted democratic for senator. The democratic senate candidates won in all 4 of those states and in a couple, by a large margin. https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-resultsHistory shows the republicans always seem to get their folks to the polls, the democrats not so much. It’s looks to me the blame lies with democrats, democratic voters in the past which didn’t turnout to vote this year. Not with the swing voters or non-MAGA Trump voters.
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,412 Likes: 371
Member CHB-OG
|
Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,412 Likes: 371 |
I just don't get it.
Everything I am seeing today, indicates that almost all of the GOP/MAGA politicians, want to end our democracy. Why?
I have heard nothing from those GOP/MAGA elected about how they are going to bring down the price of eggs or gas. I am only hearing about how they want to tear down our democracy from every angle!
Is it just the politicians, or is it true that almost 50% of voters want to end our democracy? It makes no sense to me at all. The end of our democracy will cause them the same pains it will cause non-GOP/MAGA folks! Once it is gone, those that rule our country will not care who they hurt to get what they want - MAGA or not!
I just don't get it at all!!
Does anyone have any ideas on this? It would be nice to hear from a GOP/MAGA follower to see what their answer is! People who voted for Trump feel they have been left behind. They feel that minorities and immigrants have had a leg-up that they weren't afforded. What these people are looking at is skin color or some other attribute. These people don't realize that those who made the rules are white like them - and usually are men. But the white like them rule makers have all of the money and make decisions for everyone else. Why do you think white South African Elon Musk is enjoying his very first political ride?
Contrarian, extraordinaire
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,998 Likes: 132
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 11,998 Likes: 132 |
All Hail King Musk!!
Looks like the Dems got a win on the CR issue...
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
|
|
|
|
|