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#349120 01/21/25 12:56 PM
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Welp, Trump was sworn in as the 47th POTUS. This time, Trump comes with the dubious honor of being America’s first convicted felon AND adjudicated sexual assaulter POTUS.

In a flurry of Executive Orders signed among them, 50 Intelligence Officers lost their security clearances because the signed a Memorandum stating the “Hunter Biden laptop” was Russian propaganda. Trump also released 1500 J6 rioters out of jail or prison.

These EOs show who Donald Trump is: an incredibly insane sociopath. A vindictive old man with small d-energy, with the emotional maturity of a middle school kid.

We are so screwed as a country.


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pdx rick #349121 01/22/25 12:41 PM
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I totally agree, Trump is a very vindictive man with revenge in his heart and will use the power of government to extract that revenge. I’ve said many times Trump has the mentality of a spoiled 4-year-old brat with his name calling and throwing of temper tantrums along with his 3rd grade schoolyard bullying tactics.

Yes, Trump pardoned the 1-6 participants, renamed the Gulf of Mexico and that mountain in Alaska. Has done pretty much so far what he campaigned on. But what he has done so far isn’t what got him elected or why approximately half of those who voted for him wanted him to do. Sure, half were MAGA, avid Trumpers, approximately around a quarter of the electorate. The other half were people voting for Trump because they thought he would do better job with the economy, inflation, rising prices, especially illegal immigration etc. than what the Biden administration had done. They voted for Trump hoping their own lives would be better, their personal situation would change, their standard of living improve. An example of this, among those voters who said they were better off 4 years ago than today, Trump won those voters 76-23 over Harris. 58% of all Americans said the economy was poor, not good, Trump won these voters 78-20 over Harris. 73% of all Americans were dissatisfied or angry with the way things were going in this country Trump won them 62-35. None of these voters gave the vindictiveness of Trump a thought. These non-MAGA, non-Trumpers, half of those who voted for Trump thought Biden and his administration failed in their job of handling or addressing inflation, rising prices, the economy as a whole, illegal immigration etc. They didn’t vote for Trump, their vote was against Biden, his replacement, Harris, against the democratic party, those in charge. Looking over the exit polling this is easily discernable.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0

The bottom line, if Trump improves the economy, gets rid of inflation, stops rising prices, secures the border, their standard of living improves, these people, the non-MAGA won’t care what Trump does in other areas such as pardons, renaming, taking revenge on political opponents, or anything else. It seems our democracy has evolved into what have you done for me lately.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349123 01/22/25 02:57 PM
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However, if he doesn't, I don't expect a massive abandonment of him as he will lie about it being the Left's fault - the same propaganda strategy he used to get elected.

We have spread some blame on the Democrats for not running an effective campaign or platform, but how do you compete with a master of lies and a gullible electorate? Looks like Dems are not as good at lying as Reeps are.


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
pdx rick #349124 01/22/25 05:34 PM
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Hmm, if he doesn’t cure those main problems, he’ll lose support among the non-MAGA and drop back down to the level of support Trump had during his first term. Lies or not, a lot of those folks will be looking at their wallet. No matter how many lies, they all become irrelevant to a thinning wallet. If Trump doesn’t solve the inflation, rising prices, border problem, the democrats will have a banner year come 2026. The democrats gained 38 house seats in the 2018 election; they could very well repeat that performance if Trump doesn’t take care of those issues that he was elected to take care of.

The democrats failed to see or understand how dissatisfied most folks were with the Biden administration. Harris, the democrats thought they would win the election because she wasn’t Trump. They didn’t consider that most Americans looked on the Biden administration as either governing very poorly or as a failure to cure the problems the masses thought most important to them. Yet, by running Trump, the republicans gave the democrats, Harris a very good chance of winning whereas some other republican probably would have won in a landslide. Most Americans still dislike Trump, only this time around they disliked the job performance of Biden and company more than they disliked Trump. Look for Trump to lose a lot of support from those who voted against Biden and the democrats, but not for Trump. Who opposed Harris and the democrats last year didn’t matter much to them. When a sitting president’s overall job approval is at 40%, his disapproval at 57%, when Biden and company’s handling of most issues are disapproved at somewhere between 55-65% of all Americans, it’s a wonder, simply amazing Harris came as close as she did. The democrats ended up gaining 2 house seats while the GOP gained but 4 senate seats. As sitting presidents, Carter and Biden had roughly the same approval/disapproval among all Americans. But in 1980, Reagan won by 10 points, not 1.5. The republicans gained 35 house seats, not losing 2 and gained 12 senate seats, not 4.

Trump will lose support; he’ll lose the support of a large portion of the non-MAGA voters who voted for him. You can write this down in stone. Just like in 2018, republicans were defending Trump and what they did over those first two years of Trump when the GOP lost 35 house seats. In 2026 the republicans will once again be defending Trump and what they had done over the next two years. Wait, watch and see.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349125 01/23/25 04:13 PM
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I heard that there was a vast number of voters who just didn't vote. Thought that was pretty interesting. He has lost the police support. Virtually all religion that are not white christian are hammering him. Taking away the jobs of the infirm is not helping him. The list just keeps on going down. I also suspect that there are more than just 3 senators that don't support him. If he keeps it up it gonna get VERY interesting. They are currently getting ready to pass a law restricting female rights which is also not going to help. He has now turned on the Canadian and Mexico 25% tariffs which means everything from those places go up by 25%. I suspect that he also has a lot more as well!

Yep - INTERESTING TIMES!

Last edited by jgw; 01/23/25 05:21 PM.
pdx rick #349126 01/24/25 12:56 AM
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I’m not certain I didn’t cover this on another subject. You’re correct about those not voting this time. 2020 63% voter turnout, 159 million. 2024 59% voter turnout using VAP, 156 million. 3 million less folks voted in 2024 than 2020 although those eligible to vote rose by 7 million. Along with less voters turnout out, in 2020 37% of those who voted were democrats, 35% republicans. In 2024 31% were democrats, republicans maintain their 35% of those who actually voted.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results

https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0

Why the 6-point drop in democratic voter turnout is something I’ve been researching, but I can’t find any definitive cause. As for the religious, Trump won the protestant vote 63-36 over Harris, Trump also won the Catholic vote 59-39, lost the Jewish vote to Harris 78-22 and lost the no religion folks to Harris 71-27.

There were several role reversals, for the first time since 1984 Trump became the first republican to win the working class, blue collar workers 51-47 over Harris while Harris won the college grads 56-42. College grads had gone republican from 1972 through 2008 when Obama won them. Romney took them back in 2012, Clinton won them in 2016, Biden in 2020 and Harris in 2024. Blue collar workers used to be a democratic party staple while college grads were steadily republican in the past. Trump came within 5 points of winning union households. Other groups, Trump won 46% of the Hispanic vote, the most ever by a republican. He won 13% of the black vote, the most for a republican since Gerald Ford won 15% back in 1976. Trump won first time voters 55-44 over Harris, the first time a republican had done that since 1988. There’s more on role reversals or long-time groups of voters who had a habit in the past of voting republican and or democrat, switched this year to voting for the opposite party they had in the past.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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pdx rick #349128 01/24/25 08:21 PM
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It is confusing. As far as I can tell the Republics did their work and the Democrats didn't. I know - 'maybe' but that, I think is is what happened. The Dems just didn't do a great job and win. I think that happened because they had a plan that didn't seem to have a lot to say about the other side. I tend to believe that the Democrats are a kindly group that toot their own horns but, pretty much, ignore the other side. Hopefully, this time around, the Dems can wake up, smell the roses (and other, not particularly desirable stenches). Mr Trump has done his best to do this and it would be nice if the Dems point some of that out to the voting public. Lord knows the Right is doing enough to, pretty much, disgust most humans.

Some might be the current system of sale based on 'gifts' from a variate of sources. Another is the on-going lies. (the Dems could put up a half hour should on tv simply noting the day's lies, including existing facts).

Just a thought. Right now, as far as I can see, the Dems seem to be not real interested.

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I totally agree. It has been pretty obvious that Trump's main strategy has always been to blame the Democrats in particular and liberals in general for everything bad while taking credit for anything good that happens anywhere in the world.

Someone on Substack had the idea of Democrats daily identifying everything and anything that goes wrong anywhere in the world and demand to know why Trump let it happen and when he is going to fix it. Every. Single. Day. Non-stop. Never let any of the problems fade from the news, keep hammering at it. For example: "Mr. President, when will you fix your mess? You promised to end the Ukraine war on day one. It is now day X and the war rages on! The price of eggs is $9. $9!!!! You need to fix this mess you've gotten us into now! The fires are still burning in LA. When will you put them out? Why haven't the burned down neighborhoods been rebuilt? When will you do something to fix this disaster you are presiding over?"

It doesn't matter if none of the things are his fault. That sort of thing has never stopped him nor Republicans in general from using this tactic. And the great part about it is, it works on the American public.

Last edited by Irked; 01/25/25 06:58 AM.

How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
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Years and years of hard-fought advances to make America better for EVERYONE are being erased in one stroke of the pen: Trump signed an EO repealing President Lyndon Johnson’s 1965 executive order banning racial discrimination in hiring for the federal government.

Another EO Trump signed this week proclaims that our sex identity begins at “fertilization” when, in fact, sexual development doesn’t begin to start until at least the sixth week after fertilization. While the EO is a direct attack on transgender individuals and setting them up for rank persecution – the intent of the EO – this EO also a way of laying the groundwork for fetal personhood, a doctrine that will ultimately lead to a total ban on abortion and several methods of birth control.

Benjamin Franklin, ever the optimist even at the age of 81, gave what was for him a remarkably restrained assessment in his final speech before the Constitutional Convention: “…when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men, all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views.” He thought it impossible to expect a “perfect production” from such a gathering, but he believed that the Constitution they had just drafted, “with all its faults,” was better than any alternative that was likely to emerge.

Upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

Who knew our Republic’s hard fought advances could all be destroyed in one week.


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perotista #349131 01/25/25 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by perotista
I’m not certain I didn’t cover this on another subject. You’re correct about those not voting this time. 2020 63% voter turnout, 159 million. 2024 59% voter turnout using VAP, 156 million. 3 million less folks voted in 2024 than 2020 although those eligible to vote rose by 7 million. Along with less voters turnout out, in 2020 37% of those who voted were democrats, 35% republicans. In 2024 31% were democrats, republicans maintain their 35% of those who actually voted.
I place blame for Kamala Harris not defending the Palestinians against their massacre by the Israeli government. Yes, October 6th was horrible, but the extent of the risraeli government's retribution is un-called for. Harris could had distanced herself from the Biden Administration in this regard. But, perhaps at the end of the day, she agreed with Biden on this.

Harris lost a lot of votes by this decision from both Palestinian and non-Palestinian voters. We KNOW voters stayed home because of this issue.

Otherwise, Harris ran a great campaign.


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Remember - Harris was a VICE president. VICE presidents do not have a life of their own, nor, I suspect, a thought of their own. They are there for one purpose - back the president and stand in if necessary. That being the case, and being aware that she is a vice president she could not do that as it would be going off away from her president. The while Kamala Harris thing has given me some humor. Vice presidents actually do very little and ITS ALWAYS at the behest of the president.

All that being said I fear that Biden should never have stuck with Netanyahoo. That man is a monster and a charged criminal by his own government. Apparently the only reason he is not in prison is because he continues to hold his position. Biden dragged her right down that path. There were thoughts expressed (few and far between). Anyway, I think you are probably right. That deal is a serious mess and we were right in middle of it.

jgw #349133 01/26/25 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jgw
Remember - Harris was a VICE president. VICE presidents do not have a life of their own, nor, I suspect, a thought of their own.
VP Harris was running for POTUS. She had better have her own ideas.


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pdx rick #349134 01/26/25 12:24 PM
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VP once a sitting president finished his time in office don’t have a winning record when running to replace a president of his own party. A 20% winning record
1960 Nixon lost to JFK
1968 Humphrey lost to Nixon
1988 G.H.W Bush beat Dukakis*
2000 Gore lost to G.W. Bush
2024 Harris lost to Trump

Probably because Americans want a change. In fact, only one candidate, G.H.W. Bush from the party of the sitting president won the election to replace that sitting president of their own party. The list not counting presidents who lost reelection, just their replacements.

1952 Truman’s replacement Stevenson lost to Eisenhower
1960 Eisenhower’s replacement Nixon lost to JFK
1968 LBJ’s replacement Humphrey lost to Nixon
1988 Reagan’s replacement G.H.W. Bush beat Dukakis*
2000 Bill Clinton’s replacement Gore lost G.W. Bush
2008 G.W. Bush’s replacement McCain lost Obama
2016 Obama’s replacement Hillary Clinton lost to Trump
2024 Biden’s replacement Harris lost to Trump

Replacement winning percentage 12.5%. If it weren’t for G.H.W. Bush winning in 1988, both VP’s and a sitting president’s replacement would be a O’fer. It also seems that a high or a low favorable or a high or low job performance has nothing to do with either the VP winning or a sitting presidents replacement winning. Eisenhower, Bill Clinton, Obama were all very popular presidents, yet their replacement lost. Truman, LBJ, G.W. Bush, Biden were all unpopular presidents which their replacement lost.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349135 01/26/25 06:34 PM
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This is what happens when you stay home and not vote: Trump propses 'clean out' of Gaza citizens


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pdx rick #349136 01/26/25 11:21 PM
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Yep, you are probably right but that is, as far as I can tell, the way it was and will probably be that way if another vice tries to run. Comes under the heading of sh?? happens..........

pdx rick #349137 01/27/25 01:28 PM
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Rick, I’ve been trying to figure out why so many previous democratic voters decided to stay home and not vote last year. Numbers to ponder, party affiliation from 2000-2020 the democrats averaged 4-point advantage over the republicans 33-29% with the rest classified as independents. Among those who actually voted the democrats averaged 37% of the electorate who went to the polls, the republicans 33% from 2000-2020. Independents are notorious for not voting as they don’t have the same stake in the elections as the two major parties do. The two major parties own the candidates, they chose the candidates, independents own nothing and choose no one.

Then 2024 happened. Party affiliation was even at 28% for each major party. The first time the democrats didn’t have a distinct advantage in party affiliation since FDR first came on the scene or should I say, Herbert Hoover. For the first time more republicans went to the polls and voted last year than democrats since Hoover. 35% of those who voted were republicans, 31% democrats, the rest independent which Harris won 51-48. But that was a far cry from the numbers Biden rang up in 2020 winning independents 54-41 over Trump with 5% voting third party.

Trump won because previous democratic voters stayed home, the drop percentage wise among those who actually voted dropped from 37% democrats in 2020 down to 31% in 2024. Some 8 million previous democratic voters didn’t vote. The republican percentages remained the same at 35% of those who voted in both 2020 and 2024. Throw in the fact Trump won first times voters last year, that explains Biden defeating Trump by 7 million votes in 2020 to Harris losing by 2 million.

I know what happened, that is in the numbers. I don’t know why approximately 8 million previous democratic voters would decide to stay home last year. I have theories, but no hard numbers or facts to back up those theories. I’m continuing to work on those. But some interesting tidbits.

Voter enthusiasm among democrats to get out and vote for Harris was much lower than the enthusiasm republicans had to go to the polls and vote for Trump. Party affiliation or the base of both major parties were even in 2024. That a first since Gallup and Pew Research began keeping track of party affiliation back in 1948. The democrats always have had the party affiliation advantage, some years as much as 20-point advantage over the republicans. But that was back in the big tent era of the democratic party when both major parties had their conservative and liberal wings. There’s plenty of other indications why previous democratic voters stayed home, but I’ll leave it as is for now.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349138 01/27/25 05:06 PM
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I did.

There are no enforcement mechanisms. Each branch of government can ignore the dictums of the others. Until Trump there has been a tacit but implicit acknowledgement to respect the other branches of government and their singular purviews. The executive branch understood only the legislative branch made law or appropriated monies, and the legislative branch understood the executive branch executed the laws they made. Under Trump this is no longer the case. Before I could type this comment, Trump has already declared a national emergency on the border, which in effect expanded executive authority and subsumed some legislative prerogatives. As he learns of his immense power within his presidential duties, he will no doubt continue to expand his executive authority and the auxiliary legislative powers imbued by and with the imprimatur of the SC.

What is important about this is the fact the SC has no judicial mechanism to enforce any ruling or opinion they may publish. If Trump doesn't like their opinion, he can ignore it. Judicial harsh language will become just wasted printed type. If Congress says Trump can't make law, he will declare another and in this case unspecified national emergency which would encompass increased legislative duties. What can Congress do? Write a law which can and would be ignored by Trump.

What all of this means is Trump has become in effect a king. I warned of this possibility long ago and now it appears to be a reality.


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America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



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My wife thinks that everybody who voted for Trump will vote the other way in two years. I am not convinced that is going to happen. My own thought is that those who voted for Trump in the first place are not the brightest minds in the nation and I doubt that anybody knows what they are going to do. Now add in that the Democrats are going to have to do something. So far, I fear, that has been an ongoing disaster. I thought I would add this and see who agrees with what in this instance. I also wonder if it will make any difference, one way or the other.

Just a thought............

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If I dig out my old crystal ball, 2026 should be a banner year for the democrats with a big depends in front of that banner year. MAGA makes up approximately 25% of the electorate, they’re not going to change their votes. You do have another quarter of the electorate who voted for Trump who aren’t MAGA Trumpers. The read I’m getting is Trump is governing only for the MAGA portion of the country. If he continues doing that, look for the democrats to regain the house in 2026 by a large margin. Trump is getting high marks on his job approval so far, but that is because he’s tackling the illegal immigration problem which was the second most important issue in last years election. Trump has issued a couple of EO’s on the illegal immigration problem, but he didn’t really need to do that, all he needed to do was enforce the laws already on the books.

Inflation was the top issue, rising prices. No EO is going to solve this issue. I don’t think there’s much the government can do about inflation other than let it run its course. Inflation is currently at 2.9% and falling. Trump took office at the right time. Give it another 6 months or so, inflation should tame itself. If Biden had six more months to go on his presidency, he would have gotten the credit.

But Trump is a vindictive man with revenge in his heart. Even if Trump is successful on illegal immigration and rising prices, him taking his revenge out on his political opponents will doom the GOP. Most Americans don’t like radical change, they don’t like being taken out of their comfort zone which is what Trump is doing so far.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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MAGA makes up approximately 25% of the electorate, they’re not going to change their votes
Correct
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Trump is governing only for the MAGA portion of the country

Again correct
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he’s tackling the illegal immigration problem

Yes in a way Pres Biden did not do. He is advertising how many people he is deporting .... Pres Biden did not do that in spite of the fact he also deported people. The only EO which made a real difference is, he stopped legal immigration, and that is something Pres Biden did not do.
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Inflation was the top issue, rising prices

Yep ... and it doesn't matter if the rate of inflation slows down to acceptable levels. The effect of prices increases from inflation are and will continue to be felt, until the market adjusts to increased supplies and outstripping demands. There remains the question of how will producers feel the effect? If increased production means lower wholesale prices, don't expect the producers to continue losing money to appease Trump. I don't know where inflation is heading but I don't expect it to be lower than FED expectations and certainly not lower than voter expectations.
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Trump is a vindictive man with revenge in his heart

Not sure that has any meaning for the average voter. They're not affected and otherwise it is an abstraction dealt with by those who think of the political and philosophical ramifications.


They have begun the deconstruction of the administrative state and apparently weaponization of government has become de facto reality. At this moment I do not believe Democracy will survive.


ignorance is the enemy
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America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



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Exactly rporter. A lot of the non-MAGA, non-Trumpers voted for him simply because they felt they were better off 4 years ago than today. Which is not surprising since this group of voters always go to the challenger. While republicans and democrats vote the letter behind the name regardless of who the candidates are, those non-affiliated tend to vote their personal situation. Better off today, they’ll vote for the incumbents or party in power, worst off than 4 years ago, they’ll vote for the challenger or party out of power. Not much thought is given to anything else if any. 22% of those who voted based their vote on being worst off today than they were 4 years ago, Trump won those voters 76-23 over Harris.

What so many people don’t realize, to many Americans presidential elections are strictly a referendum on the sitting president. If they feel their personal situation is better off, they’ll vote for the sitting president or his party, if worse off, for the challenger or the party out of power.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
rporter314 #349143 01/30/25 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rporter314
[quote]They have begun the deconstruction of the administrative state and apparently weaponization of government has become de facto reality. At this moment I do not believe Democracy will survive.
I agree, but I am still have a slight hope it will survive enough to be repaired and that we do not fall into a full dictatorship.


Good doesn't always win!
pdx rick #349144 01/30/25 09:34 PM
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Trump is doing a really incredible making sure he is in the news working the Democrats over. The Democrats, of course, being well mannered, and taking it on the chin with kindness and love. So, again, the Democrats are making damned sure they do not anger or say anything that might upset Mr. Trump. They are, in other words, doing everything they can to make sure the Republicans are happy and, apparently never lie nor make bad decisions.

It is REALLY time for the Dems to get off their dead butts and do something. One would think, for instance, that when Trump blamed the latest plane disaster on the Democrats might have, at the very least, fought back but, I guess, they are smarter than I (or just do not want to even try).

I also apologize. I suspect many agree, its been noted all over, over and over, and they just chug down the block as if nothing is happening. Mr Trump continues to work, very hard, to get EVERYBODY upset and is doing a great job. I guess the Democrats may have decided that he is doing such a great job that they will just keep their mouths shut and watch the firework. The Dems know, for instance, that their party is responsible for making Trump the president because something like 30% of them were too busy to even vote! We hear how the Democrats are going to destroy themselves. I always find that one strange. 30% of the Dems can't even vote! ALL the Republicans VOTED! These days, whenever I talk to a Democrat that tells me the he/she never voted I always say "Thank you!" They always ask "Why?" I always reply; "For making Trump president". Their response is normal. They stare a little bit and then get the hell out of my way. I used to think they might care. I am no longer even sure about that one.

I fear for us all and hope...............

pdx rick #349145 01/31/25 01:08 PM
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I’ve heard and read about several reasons why democrats didn’t turnout last year. The problem is they’re some pundit’s opinion. You can’t poll those who didn’t vote.
1 Harris wasn’t liked much by democrats which was pointed out that in the 2020 nomination races, she was the first one to withdraw before the first primary was even held. Harris had less than one percent support. Then during her time as Biden’s VP, Democrats were giving her only an 80% favorability rating, 84% job approval, 10 points below what other VP’s had received from members of their own party. After her loss to Trump, her favorable rating dropped to 73% among Democrats.

2 No primary. The democratic base didn’t have a choice or say who would be their nominee after Biden withdrew. Several pundits theorized that Harris wouldn’t have been the democratic nominee if primaries were held. She was chosen by the democratic party leadership, not the base.

3 Harris’s failure to come up with new ideas. She even stated she’d do nothing different that what Biden was doing. This is in my opinion true and a huge problem when VP’s run to replace a sitting president of their own party. Especially an unpopular president which most Americans deemed his policies and handling of the issues wasn’t working. VP’s who lost, Nixon, 1960, Humphrey 1968, Gore 2000, Harris 2024. You could include Ford 1976, Nixon’s VP, but was president in 1976. This was Ford’s first election as he had been appointed and confirmed as president by the congress. Mondale, Carter’s VP, lost to Reagan in 1984. G.H.W. Bush. 1988 was the only VP since 1960 to win the election to replace a president of his party.

4 my own opinion, Harris campaign was based solely on the fact she wasn’t Trump. The ineptness of her campaign mirrored that of Hillary Clinton 2016 and G.H.W. Bush’s 1992 campaigns. She didn’t give the voter a reason to vote for her, just against Trump. You had 15% of democrats disapproving of the job Biden had done, a much higher percentage than normal for a sitting president of their own party. Throw in the fact Harris was viewed by 17% unfavorably by her own party members, you have a situation where many dissatisfied democrats decided to stay home and not vote instead of voting for Trump. They still disliked Trump and didn’t want him, but were dissatisfied with both Harris and Biden’s performance. Just a theory.

As for Trump, a plurality of Americans approves of the job he has done for his first 9 days in office.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating

As for what the democrats can do, the republicans control the presidency, the house and the senate. There’s not much realistically they can do. Letting Trump be Trump may be the best approach. His job approval is basically an even split. This is supposedly during the honeymoon period. It’s bound to get worse. The democrats don’t have the bully pulpit or means to be heard by the masses as a whole who are now not interested much in politics if at all. As time goes by, these people will make up their own minds without any input from the democrats. Trump will return to his very low job approval as he had during his first term. Give it time.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349146 01/31/25 08:11 PM
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Running a Vice President, to be President is just a bad idea. I think you have already given thoughts on history of that one - just not a good idea. I kinda liked Harris as she was kinda selling a nice story but most growed up are not real interesting in nice stories.

I also keep wondering why in the world somebody would even vote for Trump. This has been worked over pretty good but, still, just makes no sense to me.

When you think about it all one thing becomes pretty clear. The Democratic party just seems to not be very interesting and that got proven in the last election. I have no idea what they are going to do but I do know they should do something (I have, no idea, what it might be but they should, while they are trying to figure it out, fight back (at the very least).

Should also mention that Trump is scaring the hell out of me. When he is through with Canada, for instance, there are whole parts of the united states which will no longer have any electricity and water (amongst other things). Then there is the oil import thing as well which, evidently, will make the price of gas REAL expensive. His attack on Mexico will also raise prices on lots of stuff. I think his plan is to get more money coming in so he can do clever things and kinda screw them who are not rich.

Anyway............

pdx rick #349147 02/01/25 04:04 AM
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VP’s are handicapped. If a VP running for the presidency in this case Harris to replace a sitting president of their own party, the VP can’t come out say what he or she would do differently or change. That would appear being very disloyal to the president you just served as VP under. Just stating that the election of the VP would be another 4 years of the previous president only worked with G.H.W. Bush in 1988. Reagan was very popular with a high overall job approval. Personalities also have a lot to do with the defeat of the VP. Nixon was kind of dour, serious. JFK filled with life. Humphrey was about the same as Nixon. 1968 had two dour candidates only LBJ in 1968 was very unpopular with a low overall job approval. Gore was a statue, no charisma although Bill Clinton was popular and charismatic. G.W. Bush gave the people that down-home boy much like Carter in 1976. Not that G.W. Bush had that much of charisma, but G.W. wasn’t a statue.

Come to think of it, most two term presidents had charisma. Certainly Obama, Bill Clinton and Reagan had it up the ying yang. All three were great orators and communicator. All three won their elections fairly easily.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349149 02/01/25 11:57 AM
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Trump seeking a third term, here’s an article from Politico that covers that.

How Trump Could Snatch a Third Term — Despite the 22nd Amendment

Four ways Trump could stay in power beyond 2028.

https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...rid=0000014e-f113-dd93-ad7f-f91785eb0001


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
jgw #349151 02/01/25 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jgw
I also keep wondering why in the world somebody would even vote for Trump. This has been worked over pretty good but, still, just makes no sense to me.

This has been driving me nuts! I do not see the good that people saw in most of his promises. Some I can see it, like the border, although the border has been a problem forever and dems and repubs alike, have failed to fix it. But almost every time Trump opens his mouth, I shake my head because I don't understand how anyone could have voted for him - but that's just me!


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perotista #349152 02/01/25 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by perotista
Trump seeking a third term, here’s an article from Politico that covers that.

How Trump Could Snatch a Third Term — Despite the 22nd Amendment

Four ways Trump could stay in power beyond 2028.

https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...rid=0000014e-f113-dd93-ad7f-f91785eb0001
Oh boy. I haven't read this yet and am still deciding if I want to. I'm already have a feeling of doom and gloom, and this might throw me over the edge!

UPDATE: Okay, I've read it. And now that my blood pressure has dropped back down to almost normal, I can comment.

I think would be the easiest path for him to take:
Quote
The text bars anyone from being “elected” to a third presidential term. It says nothing about a person becoming president for a third term by some other legal avenue — for instance, by being elected vice president and then ascending back to the presidency through the death, resignation or removal of the person at the top of the ticket.

This technicality seems to permit a shrewd scenario. Imagine that, near the end of Trump’s second term, some other person — call him JD Vance — wins the Republican nomination for 2028. Vance chooses Trump as his vice-presidential running mate — and pledges that, if he wins, he will resign on Day 1 and hand the presidency back to Trump.

The campaign slogan writes itself: “Vote Vance to Make Trump President Again.”

I am surprised the article didn't mention it, but I thought about him using Martial Law to remain president. He could easily start some global incident that he could use as an excuse to put us into a state of Martial Law. And, as ruthless as he is, I could see it happening!

Last edited by Kaine; 02/01/25 04:03 PM.

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Being a career military man, I’m not sure martial law would work at keeping Trump in power. The military takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not the president as Hitler had his military do. The sad part is I’m not sure. I’ve been retired for over 12 years now and I know the military of my era wouldn’t go along with martial law to keep Trump or any president in power beyond the two terms as stated in the Constitution. But the military has changed a lot since I retired.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349157 02/02/25 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by perotista
Being a career military man, I’m not sure martial law would work at keeping Trump in power. The military takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not the president as Hitler had his military do. The sad part is I’m not sure. I’ve been retired for over 12 years now and I know the military of my era wouldn’t go along with martial law to keep Trump or any president in power beyond the two terms as stated in the Constitution. But the military has changed a lot since I retired.
Thank you for your service, and I hope you are right.


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pdx rick #349158 02/02/25 12:52 AM
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I find this to be very concerning.

[video:youtube]
[/video]


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
perotista #349159 02/03/25 01:32 AM
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My sense is fully one half of the military are in the bag for Trump ... the others believe in and would follow the Constitution. Should Trump give illegal orders, I believe his half would comply and the others would stand down.

Sad to think Americans would so easily give up Democracy for a con man.


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pdx rick #349160 02/03/25 03:21 PM
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My message to Sen. Fetterman (my senator). I could only enter 1200 characters in one message so I had to try to summarize what I think about each subject. It too 3 messages just to add the below content.

Quote
Sen. Fetterman,

1200 characters. Really? You don't want to hear too much from us do you? This is part one of a multiple part message.

Although I am not a Democrat, I voted for you in 2022. You are the only representation I have. My house representatives are Republicans, and I doubt they care what I think about current events, or anything for that matter.

I am wondering why when it comes to what Pres. Trump is doing, I do not hear
any pushback from any Democrats? I know Dems are not in the majority, but you
all still have a voice! You are MY voice, or that's what I though you would be when I voted for you.

Tariffs - really? Are you on board with 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico? I don't know, because I haven't heard your voice on any media outlets. I think it stinks! It makes no sense. I'm sure you know that consumers pay for tariffs, not the country that has the tariffs on it!

DOGE - how can Elon Musk have any say in what America spends their money on? He wasn't elected or confirmed by anyone! Are you on board with this too? I don't know, because I haven't heard your voice on any media outlets.

The only thing I've heard on the media outlets, is that you are onboard with working with Pres. Trump and the Republicans where you can. What about when push-back is needed? Will you sit there with your mouth shut and just leave happen what will happen?

You're voice is very loud and could be heard by many non-MAGA/Republicans! Is there nothing that you can do to stop this madness? Can't you submit some bill or something that would have at least enough Republican support to stop some of it? Although I try to keep up with all current events, I do not know much about the detail of how this type of legislation process works. I find it hard to believe that Pres. Trump has the Republican senators all backing him. There has to be a few left that would stand up for what is right! Or, maybe not. They are all part of the cult now too.

Right now, people that think we are headed in the wrong direction are hearing no push-back from anyone! What is going on? Will we all sit here and let us fall into a dictatorship because no one is pushing back? We are concerned this is what is about to happen!

I don't expect to hear anything back from you except some form letter thanking me for my input. That's all I've ever gotten in return for writing my legislators.

Thank you,


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rporter314 #349161 02/03/25 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rporter314
My sense is fully one half of the military are in the bag for Trump ... the others believe in and would follow the Constitution. Should Trump give illegal orders, I believe his half would comply and the others would stand down.

Sad to think Americans would so easily give up Democracy for a con man.

If they they conduct themselves as constitutional traitors they open themselves up to some pretty severe consequences in the aftermath which I guarantee you will NOT be in their favor.
Think about it....if they engage in hostilities against American citizens, do you think that they will be eligible for any kind of healthcare, any kind of benefits, any kind of pension, any kind of status that is universally defined as "honorable"?

It's highly unlikely that the vast majority of the ones who violate the Constitution will be looked upon kindly by history and it is doubtful any of them will escape punishment for their mass actions.

The only environment under which any kind of honorable status for traitorous soldiers becomes a reality is if the entire United States literally turns into North Korea, and I guarantee you DPRK soldiers are lucky if they even get adequate FOOD after a lifetime of service. We saw what happened to the North Korean conscripts sent to Ukraine to fight alongside the Russians.
Does anyone think they came home to ticker tape parades and adequate veterans benefits?

And now, take into consideration that out of 420 million guns in private hands, at least two hundred fifty million belong to people who value The Constitution and the Rule of Law. Those aren't odds any soldier wants to confront.


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Originally Posted by Kaine
Originally Posted by perotista
Trump seeking a third term, here’s an article from Politico that covers that.

How Trump Could Snatch a Third Term — Despite the 22nd Amendment

Four ways Trump could stay in power beyond 2028.

https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...rid=0000014e-f113-dd93-ad7f-f91785eb0001
Oh boy. I haven't read this yet and am still deciding if I want to. I'm already have a feeling of doom and gloom, and this might throw me over the edge!

UPDATE: Okay, I've read it. And now that my blood pressure has dropped back down to almost normal, I can comment.

I think would be the easiest path for him to take:
Quote
The text bars anyone from being “elected” to a third presidential term. It says nothing about a person becoming president for a third term by some other legal avenue — for instance, by being elected vice president and then ascending back to the presidency through the death, resignation or removal of the person at the top of the ticket.

This technicality seems to permit a shrewd scenario. Imagine that, near the end of Trump’s second term, some other person — call him JD Vance — wins the Republican nomination for 2028. Vance chooses Trump as his vice-presidential running mate — and pledges that, if he wins, he will resign on Day 1 and hand the presidency back to Trump.

The campaign slogan writes itself: “Vote Vance to Make Trump President Again.”

I am surprised the article didn't mention it, but I thought about him using Martial Law to remain president. He could easily start some global incident that he could use as an excuse to put us into a state of Martial Law. And, as ruthless as he is, I could see it happening!

It didn't work out very well for South Korea.


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perotista #349163 02/03/25 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by perotista
As for Trump, a plurality of Americans approves of the job he has done for his first 9 days in office.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating

Voted for cheaper eggs and got four hundred dollar insulin and empty EBT cards instead.
Yeah I think those approval poll numbers are a bit delayed.


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Quote
If they they conduct themselves as constitutional traitors they open themselves up to some pretty severe consequences in the aftermath which I guarantee you will NOT be in their favor.
Think about it....if they engage in hostilities against American citizens, do you think that they will be eligible for any kind of healthcare, any kind of benefits, any kind of pension, any kind of status that is universally defined as "honorable"?
I don't think you git it. We live in Trump's world where everything you thought you knew about our Democracy has been thrown out. Everything Trump does is a presidential order and therefore Constitutional according to the SC. And should anyone actually be charged .... well they were acting under the orders of Trump and would receive a pardon. So why would any of these folks care about your threats?


Quote
It's highly unlikely that the vast majority of the ones who violate the Constitution will be looked upon kindly by history and it is doubtful any of them will escape punishment for their mass actions.
They don't care about history or their legacy. They have power and they will use it. ahhhh .... pardon. solved.


Quote
The only environment under which any kind of honorable status for traitorous soldiers ... Does anyone think they came home to ticker tape parades and adequate veterans benefits?
Didn't you see what Trump did for insurrectionists? We do not live in the world you think we do. This is Trump's world. It is an authoritarian regime purging the last visages of anyone in government who would have the temerity to following the rule of law and not Trump. In Trump world insurrectionists i.e. traitors for Trump, are considered heroes, receiving accolades from Trump himself. Better open your eyes to the reality Democracy is dead in America.



Quote
And now, take into consideration that out of 420 million guns in private hands, at least two hundred fifty million belong to people who value The Constitution and the Rule of Law.
You have grossly overestimated the number of people who actually believe in the rule of law or would have the fortitude to do anything about their loss. You must have been absent the day they put out the memo .... Democracy is Dead!!!!! Very few people give a flying frak about the Constitution as can be seen from the results from the last, and maybe the actual last, election.

The world is no longer what you once believed it to be.


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Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted by perotista
As for Trump, a plurality of Americans approves of the job he has done for his first 9 days in office.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating

Voted for cheaper eggs and got four hundred dollar insulin and empty EBT cards instead.
Yeah I think those approval poll numbers are a bit delayed.
Yes, polls are delayed. It usually takes 3 days to take the poll, then another day to compile the results and release the poll. A plurality of Americans still approve of the job Trump has done for his first two weeks in office.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating

But I have this feeling, call it a gut feeling that not many Americans are paying attention to what Trump is or has done over his first two weeks in office. To get their attention this far from an election, whatever is being done has to affect them personally. Only 10-15% of all Americans are political junkies who pay attention to politics all year long. The rest are nothing more than casual observer paying little to no attention to the daily grind.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349166 02/05/25 11:56 AM
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Have we considered the possibility of Trump putting Musk in charge of the nuclear codes, it would make so much sense inside Trump's demented skull that it may be less possibility and more probability.


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Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Have we considered the possibility of Trump putting Musk in charge of the nuclear codes, it would make so much sense inside Trump's demented skull that it may be less possibility and more probability.
That way, if he starts WWIII, Trump can blame it on Elon, although there will be no one left except them to tell!


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pdx rick #349168 02/06/25 01:01 AM
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Trump pardoned the founder of Silk Road, which ran via crypto.
Silk Road was a way to funnel money for "illegal goals" which were wide ranging, "not just drugs"
Stay with me.

The Musk/crypto kids have partially broken into the Treasury database, will allow Musk a pretty quick way to literally drain the Treasury into a crypto account.
He will then try to "ransom"/essentially force Americans into a crypto based currency.
With near zero current regulation or an equivalent "FDIC" protecting you.
Did I mention they are "after" the FDIC as well?

---This is why I advise everyone to PULL AS MUCH CASH as they can out of ALL their bank accounts NOW.
Do it before it is too late.


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Trump just keeps on going. He is also on the TV EVERY day and night. He gets all the attention. There is also a bunch of places which are spending a lot of time kinda attacking Trump but, as far as I can see, not really - just enough to let people know almost what is going on. One thing that I keep on hearing, every day, several times a day is a simple question - What in the hell happened to the Democrats (and are there any). I, personally, don't really know if they are doing anything or not because I am not sure that, if they were, that the medium would publish any of it. So, I guess, are the Democrats actually silent or are they being shut out by a medium devoted to Trump (their creation) and whatever he does.

I have been told, by wife and friends, that the Democrats have a new guy in charge and he is going to fix everything. That was a week or so ago. Still really not much. I am not even sure just what they can or will do! I do know that when I hear that the Republicans are going to mess with Social Security I kind start to worry a bit. Actually its all we have that we can do - worry...... I am, for one, getting kinda sick of that one too. I do remember that Biden, in theory, left the democratic party with a pile of money.

One, I guess, can only wonder?

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It's worse than you think.

Why worry about SS or Medicare if Democracy is dead. Trump and his complicit Republicans will do anything they want and guess what .... the Democrats can not stop it from happening .... Republican controlled Congress will not stop it from happening .... the federal courts will not stop it from happening .... and finally the SC has already thrown in with Trump .... he is gold. O you think because a few courts have temporarily stopped Trump from doing crazy stuff, you're safe? I think Bannon already knows and soon the other right-wing gangsters will figure it out .... the courts have no enforcement mechanism. Trump can do anything he wants ...

So back to your original concern .... Trump is a de facto king.


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I simply have hope. Its probably all there is but, perhaps, well, maybe. I am, in other words well aware of your stance. But, as in all, time will tell. So far its just a mess but, eventually, things should clear and then we will know for sure. I have no idea what happens then.

I hope......... its not over quite yet?

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Your hope would be better directed to your favorite film protagonist foiling the villain.

Here in the reality of a de facto dictatorship, I see an article laying out Musk's next move in rebuttal to the court staying his intervention into the Treasury Dept .... yep as I already predicted defy the court and continue doing what he is doing. So who would stop him? You think harsh language from the court would make an impact? Congress? LOL .... they are complicit. Who's left?

This is not the same universe as the one in which you woke this morning.


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In an addendum .... Rep Jim Jordan just proclaimed the Pres can ignore the courts and do whatever he wants.

Now if anyone needs a class in understanding what a dictatorship is .... well .....


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o now even worse .... VP Vance says Trump should ignore the courts ... and ... Justice Roberts is more than aware .... THERE IS NO ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM ... Justice Roberts is begging Trump to comply with the courts .... anyone think begging works with Trump???


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There does seem to be one thing that Trump hates - its when a LOT of folks start yelling at him - A LOT OF FOLKS! The problem is that is simply not happening. The Democrats, for instance, seem to be quiet big time - My own wonder about that one is whether the media is even letting them have at it. No way to tell.

Anyway, seems we are simply screwed (sigh)

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Let me edit that for you .... he hates it when MAGA yells at him .... he doesn't care what anyone else says .... after all they are evil corrupt radical left wing extremist communists etc etc. For the most part MAGA does not care what he does because Trump is savior of America ... sent by God ... etc etc.

Trump is probably the most idiosyncratic dumb person ever seen. Here is a guy who has some media savvy. He right out of the box proclaimed he could shoot someone on 5th Ave and never lose a supporter and yet at the same time he didn't want MAGA to know about Stormy Daniels ... he doesn't want MAGA to know the truth about stolen top secret files ... he doesn't want MAGA to know about his conspiracy to overthrow the government .... he doesn't want etc etc. So if he says he wouldn't lose a supporter - and he is absolutely correct - then why not tell them the truth?


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O look ... another example presaging the future ... Trump admin ignoring funding restraining order.

and so it has begun


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Every day it's something with the orange idiot and his not-elected sidekick Elmo.

In thinking about Trump and fighting back, my personal opinion is to do deal with Trump EXACTLY how he deals with others: Sue Trump for anything and everything and to tie everything up in court, just as he does. #WinningStrategy

It’s completely laughable that JD Vance and Elmo are questioning the judiciary’s authority to serve as a check on Trump’s executive power.

As anyone who has had ever had an introductory civics class knows, if a president disagrees with a court order, the remedy is to appeal. There’s a reason Trump and fiends don’t like that option: they know their actions are illegal and many will be rejected even by Trump’s own SCOTUS justices.

As stated above: Deal with Trump EXACTLY how he deals with others – sue Trump for anything and everything and tie every Trump Admin decision up in court, just as he does.
(Take a play out of THAT narcissist’s own play book – narcissists hate being treated how they treat others.)


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Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
Voted for cheaper eggs and got four hundred dollar insulin and empty EBT cards instead.
Yeah I think those approval poll numbers are a bit delayed.
Agreed.


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Originally Posted by jgw
Trump just keeps on going. He is also on the TV EVERY day and night. He gets all the attention.
Why do you think the orange idiot went to the Super Bowl game? So everyone can see him.

...and then left early when Philly was ahead. The orange creep knows that Philly is going to decline his invitation, again, to go to the WH and eat Big Macs with him.


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Last fall 2024, I married a Brazilian national in Rio de Janeiro, on 26 OCT 2024. At the time, I said: No way is Trump going to win. Welp here we are. Just know that Americans are not the only ones feeling Trump's retribution - the whole (decent) world hates the guy. Now Trump wants to tariff metals coming into the U.S. This would include Brazil's iron ore - the 3rd largest exporter of iron to the U.S. (Media only reports Canada and Mexico and number five Germany).

Trump's sidekick, Elmo, is lusting after Brazil's lithium deposits.

I am back in Rio currently (Rio de Janeiro is pronunced He-yo day Zu-nayo. My name is pronounced Hick in Portuguese) currently working on the spousal immigration stuff and also working on getting a visitor visa while we wait for spousal immigration to be approved. Wish me luck. crazy


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Anyway, the reason I wrote the above post is to share that a famous Brazilian psychic predicts that Trump will suffer a fatal heart attack on LIVE TV and the medical personnel that travel with him will not be able to resuscitate him. (Please God, let this be true.)

Trump dying on live TV, so we all can see and witness, would be better than someone popping him JKF-style, in my opinion.


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Originally Posted by pdx rick
Anyway, the reason I wrote the above post is to share that a famous Brazilian psychic predicts that Trump will suffer a fatal heart attack on LIVE TV and the medical personnel that travel with him will not be able to resuscitate him. (Please God, let this be true.)

Trump dying on live TV, so we all can see and witness, would be better than someone popping him JKF-style, in my opinion.

Only the good die, evil lives forever.
But, if your psychic proves correct, the upside is, JD Vance does not have one scintilla of Trump's draw, and he will choke so hard that the two parties will be climbing all over themselves and each other to get rid of him in newly minted spine demonstrations of record bipartisanship.


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I agree. JD Vance is too much of a novice to do much damage. Trump has thought about the damage he’d do four for years. Peter Theil and Elmo would be in a death match over who would control Vance.


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This is interesting. “Schumer warns of ‘Trump shutdown,’ lays out 4-pronged plan for Democrats”

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5136221-schumer-trump-shutdown/

The question is if this happens, who will the people blame for the shutdown? Historically, it’s been congress who gets the blame. Usually the party out of power, but not always. There’s quite a lot of people out there not paying any attention to what Trump is doing. If whatever Trump is doing doesn’t affect them personally, they don’t care. A shutdown may or may not get their attention.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Oh boy. Then who's third in line after Trump and Vance? Isn't it speaker Johnson? Oh boy. He could be worse than Trump!

The people will absolutely blame the Dems if there is a shutdown. No doubt in my mind. I don't think any propaganda from the Trump administration is needed!


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Quote
JD Vance does not have one scintilla of Trump's draw
He has begun the process by making all manner of nonsensical arguments to support Trump's nonsense and by alluding to defiance of courts which derail Trump's "illegal" EO's. Now all he has to do is begin a campaign of using the same racist tropes Trump uses.

Gov DaSantis is an example of someone who has somewhat successfully weaponized government in support of MAGA ideology and despite his lack of charisma, I believe had he simply used the same tropes Trump uses, he would have been in a much better political position ... perhaps even winning presidential candidacy.

The driving animus of MAGA is bigotry .... he who knows, understands , and uses the language thereof will be successful.


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If the shutdown occurs, there will be a ton of media attention given it. One party or the other will be blamed. Doom and gloom will prevail. Whichever party is blamed, there will be a lot of talk about that blamed party never recovering. Regardless, keep in mind most Americans have very short memories. In previous shutdowns, around two weeks to a month, it was like the shut down never occurred. Folks have moved on to other things, issues, events, happenings. Within a month the shutdown will be ancient history to most, forgotten.

It will be worth the try if it brings some attention to Trump and his doings from those who aren’t paying any attention now. But then again, those not paying attention now will be among the first to forget.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Originally Posted by perotista
This is interesting. “Schumer warns of ‘Trump shutdown,’ lays out 4-pronged plan for Democrats”

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5136221-schumer-trump-shutdown/

The question is if this happens, who will the people blame for the shutdown? Historically, it’s been congress who gets the blame. Usually the party out of power, but not always. There’s quite a lot of people out there not paying any attention to what Trump is doing. If whatever Trump is doing doesn’t affect them personally, they don’t care. A shutdown may or may not get their attention.

At this point, the next election is two-years out and voters have VERY short memories. Dems need to muck up Trump's plans as much as possible.


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Originally Posted by Kaine
Oh boy. Then who's third in line after Trump and Vance? Isn't it speaker Johnson? Oh boy. He could be worse than Trump!

The people will absolutely blame the Dems if there is a shutdown. No doubt in my mind. I don't think any propaganda from the Trump administration is needed!
R-voters already hate Dems anyway. I say go for it.


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Originally Posted by pdx rick
Originally Posted by Kaine
Oh boy. Then who's third in line after Trump and Vance? Isn't it speaker Johnson? Oh boy. He could be worse than Trump!

The people will absolutely blame the Dems if there is a shutdown. No doubt in my mind. I don't think any propaganda from the Trump administration is needed!
R-voters already hate Dems anyway. I say go for it.
It's not the R-voters that I'm thinking about, it the I's! The I's are the only chance for Dems to take back our constitution in 2026.


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You guys are so optimistic .... or delusional (still hanging on to the notion we still live in a non-Trump universe)

why would you think or believe there will another free and fair election? These gangster have a death grip on power ... what makes you think or believe they would willingly give it up? They are already calling on Trump to defy the courts ... so why would they want to have a open election?


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Independents have been all over the place, they swing wildly between parties. Harris did win the independent vote last year 49-46 over Trump. That wasn’t enough to over come the huge drop in democratic voters that didn’t show up at the polls. That 3-point margin was far below Biden’s winning of the independent in 2020 by a 54-41 margin or by 13 points. Democratic voters in 2020 made up 37% of those who voted vs. only 31% in 2024. In 2016 independents went for Trump 46-42 over Clinton with 6% voting third party against both major party candidates. This recent history or the independent vote.

2000 independents voted for G.W. Bush 47-46 over Gore; independents voted for Republican congressional candidates 49-47 over Democratic congressional candidates.

2002 independents voted for Republican congressional candidates 51-45 over Democratic congressional candidates.

2004 independents voted for Kerry by a 49-48 margin over G.W. Bush. Independents voted for Republican congressional candidates by a 50-46 margin over Democratic congressional candidates.

2006 independents voted Democratic by a margin of 57-39 over Republicans with 4% voting third party.

2008 independents voted for Obama by a 52-44 margin over McCain. Independents voted 52-45 for Democratic congressional candidates.

2010 independents voted 56-37 Republican over Democrat with 7% voting third party.

2012 independents voted for Romney by a 51-48 margin. Independents voted 50-49 for Republican congressional candidates.

2014 independents voted 54-42 for Republican congressional candidates.

2016 Independents voted for Trump 46-42 with 12% voting third party. In congressional election independents voted Republican 51-47.

2018 Independents voted for the Democratic congressional candidates by a 54-44 margin with 4% voting third party.

2020 Independents voted for Biden 54-41 with 5% voting third party. In Congressional elections independents voted Democratic 49-48.

2022 Independents voted for Democratic congressional candidates by a 49-47 margin.

2024 independents voted for Harris 49-46 with 5% voting third party. Independents voted democratic in the congressional elections 49-48.

Notice how wildly independents can swing. Presidential, going for Obama by 8 points to going for Romney by 3, then Trump by 4, to Biden by 13 and finally to Harris by 3. Midterms experience much wider swings. The big swings from an 18-point democratic advantage in 2006 to a 19-point republican advantage in 2010. A 12-point GOP advantage in 2014 to a 10-point democratic edge in 2018 shrinking to a 2-point democratic edge in 2022.

Independents can be summed up using generalities, if things are going good, they’ll vote for the incumbent or party in power. If they deem things are going bad, they’ll vote for the challenger or the party out of power.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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I am not convinced that the Democrats could actually even win a current election. Today, for the first time in weeks, I actually saw a Democratic congressman actually on TV! Perhaps that might signal that they are actually going to come out of hiding. That being said its going to take them a long, long time to get moving again. Whilst that is happening Trump and friends will continue to shut it all down. By that time they will have also installed a pile of Magas in places of remaining power. So far its the judges trying to hold it together and one wonders how well that is going to be over time. We can snort and yell but we need a fighting Democratic party and, as far as I can tell, that hasn't happened yet.

I wish us all good luck.............

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Originally Posted by jgw
I am not convinced that the Democrats could actually even win a current election. Today, for the first time in weeks, I actually saw a Democratic congressman actually on TV!

Pretty soon you will not be allowed to see ANY Democrats on TV.
Think about who owns and controls MSM television news in this country and has for decades.
It's NOT "the liberals".


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Originally Posted by perotista
Independents have been all over the place, they swing wildly between parties. Harris did win the independent vote last year 49-46 over Trump. That wasn’t enough to over come the huge drop in democratic voters that didn’t show up at the polls.

Ahhh yes, the particular Dems who (A) remained lofty in their principles or (B) were pouty because Biden wasn't perfect and neither was Harris, or finally (C) the Dems in Name Only who really wanted to keep on "teaching America a lesson" and the (D) lazy and complacent who didn't think it would matter.


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I don’t know why democratic voters didn’t show up last year. Theories abound, but there no exit polling on those who didn’t vote as to the reasons why. But here’s something to ponder, Democratic senate candidates won in Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada and Arizona while Trump was winning each of those states. Which means there were a lot of split ticket voters, voting for Trump, then voting for the democratic senate candidate.
Trump won Michigan by 80,000 votes, Dem Slotkin won by 19,000
Trump won Wisconsin by 30,000votes, Dem Baldwin won by 30,000
Trump won Nevada by 46,000 votes, Dem Rosen won by 25,000
Trump won Arizona by 188,000 votes, Dem Gallego won by 81,000

That’s one heck of a lot of ticket splitters. Those voting for Trump, then voting democratic for the senate. Even if Harris had won all 4 of those states, Trump would have won in the electoral college 270-268. We’ll never know why those democratic voters from 2020 decided to stay home in 2024, but chance are most of those ticket splitters in the above 4 states were independents.

Arizona, Trump won independents 53-44 over Harris, Gallego won independents 48-47 over Lake
Michigan, Trump won independents 50-46 over Harris, Slotkin won independents 51-44 over Rogers
Nevada, independents split 48-48 between Trump and Harris, Rosen won independents 48-42 over Brown
Wisconsin, Harris edged Trump among independents 49-48, Baldwin won independents 50-47 over Hovde

Republican in all 4 states won the turnout battle the same as they did nationwide.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Originally Posted by perotista
I don’t know why democratic voters didn’t show up last year. Theories abound, but there no exit polling on those who didn’t vote as to the reasons why. But here’s something to ponder, Democratic senate candidates won in Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada and Arizona while Trump was winning each of those states. Which means there were a lot of split ticket voters, voting for Trump.
Many Palestinian voters and Gen Z'ers are were upset about the Gaza situation fit this category.


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Rick, I went back and looked at Michigan since they have the largest Arab-American population at 208,000. That counts both adults and children which would make up the voting age population of Arab-Americans at around 100-150,000 taking a SWAG. That roughly 100-150,000 out of 5.6 million votes cast in Michigan. The breakdown via race didn’t include Arab-Americans, just white, black, Hispanic, Asian and other. Other which would include Arab-Americans made up 3% of the Michigan vote which went to Trump 59-37. Gen Z, 18-29 year olds, made up 12% of those who voted, they also went to Trump 50-47.

Michigan views of the presidential candidates, 48% of Michigan voters viewed Trump favorably, 50% unfavorably. Harris was viewed 45% favorably, 52% unfavorably by Michigan voters. In Michigan, the Israel/Palestine or Gaza showed up as 27% support for Israel, 29% support for Gaza which is a bit different from the national support of 35% support for Israel/30% for Gaza. In both cases you have a lot of not sure, no opinion or both or equally.. But it’s not surprising that democrats support Gaza, republicans Israel, independents slightly support Israel more than Gazan’s by 5 points. Trump also won first time voters 50-44 over Harris in Michigan.

This is only Michigan, but Michigan is the state with the highest Arab-American population.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/michigan/general/president/0

Out of the 15 top issues in last year’s election, the Israel/Palestine or Gaza or Hama War didn’t register which means less than 1% of the population listed it as an important issue in deciding who to vote for. The top 4, Inflation/rising prices 24%, Immigration 13%, Jobs and the Economy 11%, Abortion 9%. Why inflation and rising prices along with the economy and jobs aren't lumped together is beyond me. Inflation falls under the general heading of the economy, at least that’s how I view it which would mean the economy in general, including inflation topped the list at 35%.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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I am concerned with the lack of concern shown by a super, super-majority of Americans. This majority is convinced that nothing has materially changed that they need to concern themselves about. Or they are aware of the change and support it 100%.

They seem to fail to see that we are entering an epoch that has never been seen before in this country.

The closest analog is the Post-Reconstruction South when a single party in many states (and not just in the South) wielded unfettered political and economic control through disenfranchisement, control of the media, terror, murder, and economic punishment. But even then, it was not the entire country and people "could" attempt to better their condition by fleeing to a different state - though even this was difficult if local and/or state authorities decided that they didn't want to lose one's labor.

Today, we have a president with totally compliant majorities in both houses, a complicit Supreme Court super-majority, and a national media that is rapidly falling in line. No one in the Republican Party will go against him. Lower court orders are ignored or circumvented. The vaunted constitutional constraints are only constraints if someone is willing to be constrained or other power centers are willing to use their power.

One-man control of the federal government's purse gives that person almost unlimited power. The power to mete out trillions of dollars in federal money to those who toe the line (industry, universities, charities, states, local governments, individuals) and refusing it to those who do not should not be underestimated. People and institutions will naturally pre-comply with the regime. This is already happening today and will be the default within a few weeks.

This regime has come a long way toward purging the federal bureaucracy of non-MAGA decision makers and experts, removing another roadblock to their agenda. Once Patel is in place at the FBI, the purging of the upper echelons of the military is next.

There is effectively zero pushback to this agenda. Mere handfuls of people show up to protest these actions. The president has the highest approval ratings he's ever had. They will only go up. It is not rocket science to construct a push poll.

This leads to elections. What makes people believe that the regime will allow free elections? Using intimidation to cut off the opposition's access to funding is already occurring. He has said (and Bondi has confirmed) that he will sic the Justice Department and IRS on his political enemies. Believe him. Once he's labeled and indicted some high-profile Democrats as treasonous, it is a very short step to outlaw the Democratic Party as an anti-American party in the same way the Communist Party was outlawed. Sure, elections will be held, and some meaningless seats may go to an opposition candidate. But the actual outcome will never be in doubt; and, just like in all well-run autocracies, opposition will quickly disappear into the woodwork.

Call me Chicken Little, but similar things have happened before. All good things come to an end.


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
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That is one thing that keeps me up. So far the TV continues working over Trump but that can stop and then I am not sure what happens. But, what is happening seems to be getting folks to waken a bit. How about firing all the nuclear weapon folks and, after they did it, folks got upset and, now, they are trying to find them and re-hire them. All in all a complete mess of wonder. They just keep on, and on. The next voting will be, I think, interesting. One thing Trump really pays attention to is his support. I suspect its descending day by day. If that happens then if you think this is confusion just wait.

A possibly interesting thing about this one. Seems that those that fired the people in charge of our nuclear weapons were then told to get them back on the job. The interesting part of this one is that, apparently, when they fire somebody they destroy any and all paperwork. This meant, in this case, that they had no idea how to contact those fired to get back on the job.

Kinda inspiring.............. You just gotta appreciate it all..................

My fond hope is that our democracy can last for two years and the dems wake up enough to take over both houses so they can do something about the supreme court, etc.

Last edited by jgw; 02/18/25 06:36 PM.
pdx rick #349205 02/16/25 11:03 PM
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Call me Chicken Little, but similar things have happened before. All good things come to an end.
You're not chicken little. I have feared this for the last 2 years. I have tried reasoning with the MAGA supporters, but there are no words that will work. It is a cult! Plain and simple.

Unfortunately, the experiment will soon be ending in failure! Our democracy is a failure. I doubt that anything can stop it now! Project 2025 had it all planned out. That is how it is happening so quickly. I had hoped for much more push back from those that matter - like the house of representatives, but the GOP is 100% MAGA compliant. I doubt that the one remaining branch can halt/fix anything without the help of congress.


Good doesn't always win!
pdx rick #349206 02/17/25 12:59 PM
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I know and understand why folks voted for Trump last year. History leaves no doubt. What I don’t understand is the total lack of attention by the public as a whole to what Trump is doing and has done since he began his second term. It’s like most Americans don’t care. Which in a way shouldn’t surprise? Americans tend to give any new president a honeymoon period where the new president can do almost anything he wants with no repercussions. It’s only after 3-4 months in office do the people begin to hold the new president accountable for his actions or deeds. Knowing this, I still find it very hard to fathom that most Americans have given Trump a free pass so far. A month into his second term, Trump has a plurality of Americans approving of the job he has done. This I never expected.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating

I shouldn’t be surprised as Trump has defied conventional wisdom when it comes to politics. I’m at a total loss.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349207 02/17/25 02:38 PM
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What I don’t understand is the total lack of attention by the public as a whole to what Trump is doing and has done since he began his second term. It’s like most Americans don’t care.
I have to wonder how much the dumbing down of our society has to do with it. I know my local schools do not teach civics and haven't for years.

I have been posting on Facebook with some civic information thinking maybe many people think the President does have power over all. I've been posting topics like "Some signs that you might be in a cult", "What are the Top 10 Elements of the Authoritarian Playbook", "6 RULES for Survival under an Authoritarian Regime", "What is a constitutional crisis" just to name a few.

I don't have a ton of friends, about 150 +/-. Only one or two of these postings brought one or two likes. Some have brought many arguments from my MAGA friends. I have gotten zero comments supporting my posts and all comments were supporting the MAGA agenda.

Maybe people don't want to get involved in the MAGA bashing that occurs any time someone speaks against their beliefs! I doubt that anything that Trump has done is being felt by my friends yet. I hope once they start to feel what is happening they will have a reaction, but hope it isn't too late by then. But, maybe the pain won't bring them to reacting anyways. Who knows.


Good doesn't always win!
pdx rick #349208 02/17/25 05:14 PM
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That’s a good point. What Trump has done so far hasn’t had time to be felt among the masses. Quite a lot of folks don’t get involved or pay attention to the workings of government until it affects them personally. Not paying attention or not caring seems like the norm when it comes to government operations. We live in an era where on average 45% of all eligible Americans don’t vote in presidential elections which rises to 60% on average not voting in the midterms.

That’s a lot of Americans letting other people decide who their elected officials will be and how our government is run and operated. This apathy is caused by more than just a lack of civics being taught in school.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349209 02/18/25 12:16 AM
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MAGA does not care what happens. They will simply make all manner of excuses and then sing praises to the Savior of America. As for the non-MAGA Trump voters ... these folks chose to cut their genitals off instead of saving Democracy ... so don't expect them to save anyone.


ignorance is the enemy
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These days all the tv outputs show piles of folks a little upset with Trump. By this is assume that he is loosing support. They are doing dangerous things, such as firing the folks that take care of our stuff nuclear and then being unable to get them back because they lost names, etc. Then I think they did find them. There are also piles of people getting reported every day. Then on top of all of that all the red states are getting worked over rather well and they are REALLY getting a bit upset as well.

All that being said, if I am even half right in my thoughts it still seems that the man should be losing support.

Oh, I just remembered, Trump is a man who has a long history of failures when it comes to business. So far he seems to have done well with politics but it dawns on me that politics just may be another business to fail and, if he keeps it up I suspect he will do a really impressive failure yet again and we all get to experience the results.

Trump is difficult. He lies, he fails, he may have money or may not, he runs his mouth and just keeps on going. Gotta give him credit - he is not a quitter...........

pdx rick #349211 02/18/25 09:09 PM
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The numbers don’t show Trump is losing support if one goes by his overall job approval/disapproval numbers. What I think is happening with those protesters is they’re the ones who were angry and upset Trump won are now becoming angrier and more upset at Trump and his shenanigans. There’s still a plurality of Americans who approve of the job Trump has done so far as there was back on 20 Jan.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating

Those who view Trump favorably or unfavorably are also just about the same today as when he first took office.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump

Here’s some comparisons regarding Trump’s job approval/disapproval
28 Jan 87% of Harris voters disapprove/93% of Trump voters approved, 82% of democrats disapprove/94% of republicans approved of the job Trump was doing after one week in office.

Today 91% of Harris voters disapprove/92% of Trump voters approve, 91% of democrats disapprove/90% of republicans approve. A slight difference, but given the polls have a MOE of plus or minus 3 points, there’s really no movement or no movement outside the MOE.

I expected Trump’s overall job approval to drop ever since he started issuing these executive orders, which going by the numbers hasn’t happened. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised or that my expectations are not being met. I expected the 91 federal indictments to drive Trump out of the race. I expected the two guilty verdicts in the two New York civil cases to drop his polling number drastically. None of that Happened. Besides throwing out conventional wisdom and traditional standards when it comes to Trump, I ought to throw my crystal ball out the window too.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349212 02/18/25 10:19 PM
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I expected Trump’s overall job approval to drop ever since he started issuing these executive orders, which going by the numbers hasn’t happened. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised or that my expectations are not being met. I expected the 91 federal indictments to drive Trump out of the race. I expected the two guilty verdicts in the two New York civil cases to drop his polling number drastically. None of that Happened. Besides throwing out conventional wisdom and traditional standards when it comes to Trump, I ought to throw my crystal ball out the window too.
LOL

How many times do I have to type I told you so?????

We are in Trump reality. It is a delusional world, populated with delusional people (MAGA). When I say they believe Trump was sent by God .... believe what I type. MAGA will not abandon Trump. They believe he is doing the work of God. Yeah cults and all that. The first thing one has to do is accept it as fact Trump is the textbook case for which narcissistic personality disorder was formulated. The second thing to is recognize Trump is media savvy as all good cult leaders (manipulators) are. The third thing to accept is MAGA is driven by bigotry. Included with that animus is the internal perception they have been disenfranchised by cultural issues by Washington. Fourth, Trump is their voice, including their retribution for their perceived grievances. I'm riffing here so I may have missed a salient point or two.

Trump is abundantly transparent and predictable. Take an issue, consult the narcissists handbook and voila you know what he'll do to receive the results of praise he seeks to satisfy his narcissism.


ignorance is the enemy
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pdx rick #349213 02/19/25 12:51 AM
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I understand MAGA won’t leave Trump. MAGA makes up approximately a quarter of the electorate and about half, give or take of those who voted for Trump. This non-MAGA half thought they had it better 4 years ago under Trump than under Biden and the democrats. Many didn’t care for Trump, but in their view their personal standards of living were better. These non-MAGA types made up a good portion of the 57% of all Americans who disapproved of Biden’s job performance. Many had rejected Trump for his poor job performance after his first term, now they were rejecting Biden and the democrats. They weren’t voting for Trump, they were voting against Biden, Harris and the democrats in their minds.

It's this last half of Trump voters, the non-MAGA’s who I expected to desert Trump. To disapprove of the job he’s doing. I don’t expect MAGA to leave Trump. You’re correct there, MAGA types won’t no matter what. Maybe not enough time has passed. We’re not talking political junkies who pay constant attention to politics. We’re talking about casual observers who really don’t care what’s happening until it affects them personally. I’m not giving up hope, I do think eventually this half of Trump voters, the non-MAGA portion will come around. Especially after a few months when rising prices and inflation hasn’t come down. Sometimes politics or how a president or party governs has to affect them personally. We’ll see.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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We’re talking about casual observers who really don’t care what’s happening until it affects them personally. I’m not giving up hope, I do think eventually this half of Trump voters, the non-MAGA portion will come around. Especially after a few months when rising prices and inflation hasn’t come down. Sometimes politics or how a president or party governs has to affect them personally. We’ll see.

Still holding on to the old beliefs.

Do you think it really matters what these folks will think if the economy affects them? .... here's the other shoe ... if their vote does not count. The only states which matter in an election are the swing states. When Republicans ( read that as Trump loyalists) write laws which disenfranchise voting blocks which vote Democrat, and have election boards packed which Trump loyalists, willing to cheat in an election are in play, what chance does any candidate have but Trump? O yes I said it. Trump will run for a 3rd term because Congress will write the law.

Think Alternative Reality ... Trump delusional reality .... loyalists doing whatever he says ... etc. Do you really believe Trumpists will allow a Democrat to ever win another election? They have the power and you better believe they intend on keeping it.


ignorance is the enemy
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pdx rick #349215 02/19/25 04:13 PM
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Yeah, I think our democracy is pretty much over. It will take a miracle, a true miracle if they exist, for us not to fall!

Now my gut is acting up again and it's telling me soon, once he finishes his burning of the Constitution - I expect 8-10 months from now, around Christmas time - I think we will see Trump take us out of NATO and join alliances with Russia and China! They will become our allies. And at least half of the voting public will be fine with it.


Good doesn't always win!
pdx rick #349216 02/20/25 12:23 AM
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You guys thought I was full of the caca de toro .... "Long Live the King"


ignorance is the enemy
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pdx rick #349217 02/20/25 09:23 AM
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In the deluge of executive orders, I missed the one where he ordered a stop to enforcement of FCPA (Foreign Corrupt Practices Act) opening up the floodgates of corruption, bribery, and graft. You know, all the things that Trump has based his business model on.

Of course, they are selling this as a boon for consumers, because everyone knows no company would ever pass on the costs of a multi-billion dollar bribe to consumers!

AP Article on FCPA


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
pdx rick #349218 02/20/25 05:56 PM
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There is of course a reason Trump got rid of everyone, including people in DoJ, who could possibly investigate what he is doing. Once they are all gone he is free to break the law without impunity. Not only will he not be investigated by the federal government but not by Congress. All he has to do is spread the SC magical handkerchief over the crime and he is protected by an "official act".

Vive le roi ... yes Trump is king .... Democracy is dead ...


ignorance is the enemy
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pdx rick #349219 02/20/25 11:42 PM
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Just a thought, but I have to wonder, if at some time Trump will have to abandon his base. In order for him to take total control, it will have to be over those that oppose him as well as those that supported him.

At that point, he will have total control over the entire country! Is he that narcistic?


Good doesn't always win!
Kaine #349221 02/22/25 05:11 AM
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That's not how it works.

As a Democrat most of his life, he knew he would never win a primary as a Democrat, so what should he do? He is also somewhat media savvy. So if he were to run it would have to be as a Republican, but what issue/s would he run on? If there is one thing which animates the Republican base more than anything, it is bigotry. Trump is a bigot, so it is a match made in hell. The Republican Base is a very high percent bigoted. They hate everyone and everything, all the while shrouding themselves in the American flag, holding a Bible in one hand and gun in the other. These folks are 100% Trump supporters. They are the victims of political paranoia, which leads to politically delusional thinking. With the right message they would have followed anyone. Trump recognized their need and became their voice. He would never give them up nor would they give him up (a la cult behavior).

For total control, think back to Nazi Germany. Hitler did not have to convince ALL of the people, just enough to gain and maintain power, especially through some very effective tools. To keep his coterie of elected officials in line, he uses the Base. To exert pressure on the rest, Trump extorts people, organizations, and governmental entities to kiss the ring or suffer the consequences. How can he make his threats real? He has replaced everyone who could possibly raise a voice in opposition in government, and replaced with loyalists who would lie, cheat, and steal for him. AG Bondi has already filed suits against people IN NY she deems anti-Trump. The Gov of Maine will be next. I see this as just the start of the complete weaponization of government aimed at everyone not loyal or or at least willing to take orders from Trump.

In normal times the SC would have the integrity to stand up to Trump wanton debasement of the Constitution, however in this SC there are between 4 and 6 justices willing to side with the Unitary executive theory and allow Trump to continue to be King.

And that is how it's done.

Trump ticks off every trait used to identify a person suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is so unusual Trump would be THE textbook example to study. He is the extreme.


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pdx rick #349222 02/22/25 11:07 AM
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Welp, right on queue, the firings of top military has commenced. I predicted that they would wait until after Patel was confirmed (Did anyone really doubt he wouldn't be confirmed despite his total lack of credentials and his stated bias against 4 in 10 American?).

Watched a report from a beach in Texas yesterday. They had to look hard to find anyone who would criticize the orange ogre. Mostly there were people crowing how slapping Gulf of America on that body of water was going to bring a boom of foreign tourists to Texas and Florida who previously didn't come because they thought they were going to the cesspool across the border.

Seems the old truism that people judge other people's level of knowledge and intelligence based on their own.

Last edited by Irked; 02/22/25 11:09 AM.

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I am curious. When they show Trump, on the TV, he ALWAYS points out that he is winning more and more support. If there is anybody there on his side they too will put in their congratulations for his good luck. When he that all happens, so far, I have yet to note a single person running the show pointing out that he is losing support. I suspect that this is one indication that those that give us our shows do not want to be on the bad side of Trump. I can even understand why but, still, its a beginning and that tends to concern me.

Should probably mention that there remains shows that spend a LOT of their time pointing out that Trump is in the dumper and its just getting worse and worse. I have also been watching shows showing meetings, attended by Republican congress folk, who catch literal hell from those attending. What I don't understand is that they must understand that those attending, and many who don't but agree, are not going to vote for them again. All this being said, they just do not seem to be particularly concerned and maintain their continuing minding all that Trump says for fear he might put up somebody to run against which, apparently, scares them more. In any case, the congress folk who support Trump simply do not deserve to be serving. If we are able to last for 2 years it will be pretty interesting to see, exactly, the results of it all. I also suspect there are congressional places coming up regularly so we will learn just who wins what now and then.

Oh, one other thing. I watched a show the other night which was talking about just what the Democrats are doing about the lies of the Republicans they are working, hard, to get out the truth, backed by fact. If this is actually happening, I wonder about those who supported Trump find out that they were flat out lied to. A lot of this has to do with teenagers. Apparently he had a lot of their support and that might also be changing. I REALLY hope that the Dems turn it on!

All of this seems to be on a good side but I am not yet convinced and wonder........

pdx rick #349224 02/23/25 02:36 PM
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Hmm, jgw, the truth is Trump hasn’t gained any new support nor has he lost any support after one month in office. You can see the numbers in my post in the election thread which breaks it down. Support for Trump, opposition to Trump is basically the same as it was on election day last November.

I haven’t seen the democrats come up with any coherent plan to oppose Trump. I think they’re still in denial over losing the presidency to Trump. They need to come up with a leader, a fresh, younger face to coalesce around. Someone with new and fresh ideas. Someone who can gain the working class back, someone who new or first-time voters can identify with. Harris lost both the working class and new, first time voters last year. Heck, Trump came within 5 points of winning the union household vote. I think Harris relied too much on the fact she wasn’t Trump to carry her to victory instead of addressing the most important issues of inflation, rising prices, illegal immigration which topped the list of issues in last years election. The Biden/Harris administration was rated as failures when it came to those issues by most Americans.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/issues


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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I haven’t seen the democrats come up with any coherent plan to oppose Trump
I don't think you nor political pundits, who have said the same thing, are looking at this correctly. This government has all the appearances of a monarchy/dictatorship in which the government is Trump. There is no policy dispute because everything is by fiat (EO). The only recourse is to hope the courts will address the issues. So it is not up to the Democrats to oppose fiats. Once House Trumpists propose legislation, the Democrats can rebut the most odious ideological proposals with rational/reasonable solutions. But even then, it does not of necessity mean they oppose Trump, because the House and Trump may be at odds, complicating the issues on who or what Democrats are opposing and providing solutions. Trump world is chaos without inherent order.











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they’re still in denial
I think you as well as a large number of pundits are confusing denial of a loss with disbelief so many people would vote against Democracy. I am in disbelief and confounded that my assertions that the electorate is stupid/ignorant may have been understated. I have to conclude Americans as a whole no longer believe Democracy as an idea is valuable.


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They need to come up with a leader, a fresh, younger face to coalesce around. Someone with new and fresh ideas.
I agree. I used to listen to several right wing radio talk shows and all of them stated at various times conservatism could not be sold to the masses. They needed someone who could formulate a message and sell it. Instead for the last 40 years they found Gingrich and who sold his message of hate.

I knowingly believe liberalism will win in the end. The inertia of social evolution will eventually crush those who can not or simply refuse to adapt. It is a fact of nature. It may not be in my lifetime, but it will happen. Unfortunately at this time finding a voice to speak plain sense may not bend the trajectory of Trumpism. Foremost would be the simple fact the gangsters running our country will not go willingly. They will implement every roadblock to free and fair future elections, if they even allow them. Think of Ukraine. They should have had elections last year but in a time of war, with constant bombing, an election would be difficult at best. Should Trump declare martial law under whatever specious pretense crosses his feeble narcissistic brain, we may not see an election for many years. Congressional Trumpists and quisling Republicans would be complicit. And if anyone doesn't think that can happen .... well they haven't been paying attention to what's going on.


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the most important issues of inflation, rising prices, illegal immigration which topped the list of issues in last years election.
First rising prices and inflation are the same thing and second all MAGA conflates illegal and legal immigration as illegal/evil. But you are correct these two issues were the main issues.

They should have been addressed but weren't and I think there were a number of folks who commented on it. However, when I've explained the concept of capitalism and it's relationship to inflation to non-MAGA Trump supporters, they understood it, but when explaining to MAGA, they didn't get it. Hard to convince the masses. The immigration issue has been so conflated for a long time by propaganda media sites, I find it useless to try and explain. Too frakking stupid AND we may be facing a global trend toward extremist right wing hatred, which is and will be difficult to combat. How does one erase bigotry in one generation? In my youth I thought it would be gone in 3 generations ... ahhh to be so idealistically young again.


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The Biden/Harris administration was rated as failures when it came to those issues by most Americans.
On these issues ... yes an abject failure, but on others better than average considering the results.


America can survive bad policies. It cannot survive destruction of the foundations of Democracy.


ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



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rporter314 #349226 02/23/25 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rporter314
... I think you as well as a large number of pundits are confusing denial of a loss with disbelief so many people would vote against Democracy. I am in disbelief and confounded that my assertions that the electorate is stupid/ignorant may have been understated. I have to conclude Americans as a whole no longer believe Democracy as an idea is valuable.


I don't think most Americans know what the word "Democracy" means. I've found that most Americans don't know what a lot of words mean, but they'll argue until they're red in the face about them.

For those people, I've coined a new portmanteau - ignorrogant. They are ignorant, and absolutely arrogant about it!

Last edited by logtroll; 02/23/25 07:43 PM.

You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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pdx rick #349227 02/24/25 05:44 PM
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There is a very long list of words Americans in general do not know the meaning of and/or have come up with their own, nonsensical definitions. Here are just a few:

  • Democracy (as already noted)
  • Republic
  • Communism
  • Socialism
  • Capitalism
  • Freedom of the Press
  • Freedom of Religion
  • Tariffs
  • Welfare
  • Common Good
  • Service
  • Charity
  • Family Values
  • Right to Life
  • Science
  • Theory
  • Hypothesis
  • Fact
  • Knowledge
  • Research


In their defense, for generations they've been inundated with false definitions through a concerted effort on the part of the right wing while also being subjected to a dumbing-down of public education - also at the hands of the right wing.

It has gone so far and is so pervasive in the US (and increasingly so everywhere) that it might take centuries, not generations to rectify. It certainly won't happen in my lifetime. It may well have reached a point of no return and civilization will collapse into ignorrogance™ and hatred making the Dark Ages look like Pax Romano.


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
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pdx rick #349228 02/24/25 09:49 PM
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Wow! I would have thought, given all the TV stuff pointing out this and that, that there might be a change. You are, unfortunately, probably right about the Democrats. I think they are trying but failing and have to actually sit down and decide who and what they are and what they are going to do. This has been going waaay too much. I must get at least 5 requests for money every freaking day! (I am giving them nothing until they can prove that they have something going that makes sense and works). Seems to me not to be a difficult thing yet they just seem stuck. On the other side, they just keep on doing the same thing and it seems to be working.

I wonder if I am wrong about my thought that the Dems really didn't lose by that much and the end results were pretty close. This, in spite of the fact that I think 30% of the Dems didn't vote and Trump cleverly grabbed most of the teen agers. Am I even close on that one?

Thanks again!!

pdx rick #349229 02/25/25 03:40 PM
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I would say jgw, you hit the nail on the head. Very close election, Harris lost by 1.5 points which makes last years election the third closest election since 1888. Only 1960 and 2000 were closer. The democrats gained two house seats while losing four senate seats. But three of those loses were in deep red states of West Virginia, Montana, Ohio which shouldn’t have had a democratic senator to begin with. Only Pennsylvania which is a swing state was a state that made a difference. Given Biden and company numbers, 41% job approval, between 55-65% disapproval of his handling of most issues, one should have expected a GOP landslide of Reagan proportions back in 1980. The fact that didn’t happen says much more about Trump than Harris or even the democrats.

There also is no denying in my opinion that the democrat has no leader, visible or otherwise to lead their rebound. That they don’t know where to begin to counter Trump and all his EO’s. The democrats don’t have a message stating they stand for this or that or aren’t getting it out. The only message one can deduce from the democrats is they’re anti-Trump. Not for anything, just against Trump. There are times when a party, candidate must give the voters something to vote for, not just against. I’ll repeat myself; the democrats need a fresh young leader with new fresh ideas. Someone with ideas that can win back the working class and attract new voters. The democrats lost both groups to Trump last year. You need to give those folks a reason to vote democratic, just being against Trump won’t cut it. Win back the working class along with new, first time voters you have a winning coalition. My two cents.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349230 02/25/25 04:35 PM
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... says much more about Trump than Harris or even the democrats
I'm not much into after action reports, so have ignored most of what pundits have said, however, I think you have made a reasonable analysis. I still believe THE main issue was and still remains Democracy. All the rest of it doesn't matter if there is no Democracy.


Quote
The only message one can deduce from the democrats is they’re anti-Trump. Not for anything, just against Trump.
In the marketplace of ideas, apparently the only one which has any inertia is hatred. Trump is the leading salesman. Hatred is so visceral and inclusive. MAGA hates everyone and everything, so it's an easy sell. Everything else one hears from MAGA as reasons why they support Trump are rationalizations to obfuscate their hatred. Once one peels away the layers of this fraud, the only thing left is hatred. So that takes care of MAGA, but you say what about the rest? Well I suspect they, being as ignorant as they are, went for the rationalizations as if they were valid. How can anyone say they are for law and order if they voted for a convicted felon, who is also a sexual predator? Why would anyone vote for a person who made America into a laughingstock on the world stage? Why would anyone vote for someone who is compelled to lie about everything? Why would anyone vote for a businessman who continued to bankrupt companies while cheating banks and contractors? Why would anyone vote for someone who openly flirts with dictators? Independents went for the lies while MAGA went for immigration ... that's the issue predicated on bigotry (hatred).

What message could the Democrats or anyone have to counter an alternate reality? The Fox propaganda machine is going full blast, drowning out good sense. What Democrat stands out? Based on current trends, it would seem one needs to find a leader first then mold the issues to that presence. Democracy ... well there is no Washington or Jefferson around.

Spitballing and have no sense of what can be done. I am still convinced we are in the middle of a coup.


ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



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Thank you.........

My suspicion is that the Democrats are in a position of ignorance. I am not trying to call them names they simply, I think, have no idea what to do. I think that their problem is that their activity in congress isn't and, without congress, they don't think they have a place to fight Trump. They seem to be attending every political gathering that involve members of congress and raise hell. The problem is, as you said, they don't really have a message they can state every time they get a chance. Again, my suspicion seems to be that their lack of congressional will due to not owning either House or Senate and its turned off any kind of decisions as to who, what and when they are. Every now and then somebody make a claim to being in charge and then they kinda go away.

Its like a really bad disease they just doesn't seem to be fixable. My fond hope is that they stop that. I consider it kinda like somebody whining all the time about stuff that might be possible to fix if you can find the right doctor. They haven't found him/her yet. I have always assumed that if there is any group trying to do something that somebody is takes, voted in, etc. Right now they just kinda float. They all do not like the Republicans but just can't seem to get together to solve the problem. I find it VERY strange. Why, for instance, isn't the woman who ran and lost stand up and start whipping them into shape. She could do the "I lost and am sick of it and its time to go to work" thing. I suspect she could actually do it if she had the will (bit of hope there but I suspect I am probably wrong).

They do an excellent job of contacting me to ask for money, which I do not send. I don't know who is doing what. Every request I get is from some claimed Democratic group. I have no idea who or what they really are. If they want money one would think it would come from the party, it doesn't. I have no idea what they do, who they are, etc.
no matter who they claim to be. Again, its a bit strange. There are a number of known Dems asking for money, that's fine but ..........

There are some Republicans that are leaving for whatever and their spot will need filling. Democrats are going to try and win those seats. I know this because of the large amount of folks asking for money to support that quest. I do not know who is really asking so, again, I don't offer. I suspect if they can get some that can win places it might do something to group the Democrats. I hope it happens. I also assume that the Democrats have enough to cover a couple of these.

We will see. I wish us all luck............

As an aside. I just thought I would take a look at what others are saying about anything. That too was interesting. There was not much to see. I just wonder if its more of Democratic silence as the waiting for leadership and give-a-damn raises its head. Not much to say I guess.

Last edited by jgw; 02/25/25 10:29 PM.
pdx rick #349232 02/25/25 11:36 PM
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Mainstream political pundits I believe are in complete denial. They keep talking about how the courts will stop the assault on Democracy. Delusional .... they are all delusional.

What does a future dictator do when legally elected? He gets frustrated with the courts and legislature, and simply short circuits the process by granting himself all the power he needs to function as a dictator. The examples of what he is doing are many. Already the courts are becoming clogged with suits halting his EO's. He has now limited the WH press pool to selected outlets - I suspect all will be propaganda networks ... does it sound familiar ... Germany ... Russia .... N Korea etc. He has now sided with the axis of evil and in doing so has made America a pariah internationally. He and Putin are trying to partition Ukraine ... does it sound familiar? Trump led Congress has become a rubberstamp ... does that sounds familiar? When court cases finally get to the SC, they will either side with him or deny him. If they deny him and it is important he will snap and simply ignore them ... after all they have no enforcement mechanism AND they have already given their imprimatur to "official acts" as legal and non criminal.

For MAGA all of this is added value, but for rational Democracy loving folks (the few who remain) we will in our lifetime have seen the demise of Democracy. I'm apoplectic and can not continue typing.


ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



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pdx rick #349233 02/26/25 12:57 PM
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I’m all into numbers rporter, exit polls to be precise along with all that is happening today when it comes to numbers. Saving democracy, I posted her prior to the election on how Americans viewed that issue. They were split as to whether it was the democrats or Trump that would save democracy. That all the talk about saving democracy wasn’t working. The exit polls showed that to be exactly the case, those who thought our democracy was threated went to Trump 50-48 and those who thought our democracy was secure also went to Trump 49-48. Bottomline is the voters saw the democrats, Harris as much a threat to democracy as they saw Trump being the threat.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0

I’d say last years election boiled down to job performance of Biden and his administration, 40% of all voters approved, they went to Harris 96-3 over Trump, 59% disapproved, they went to Trump 82-16 over Harris. Past presidential elections have always been about the sitting presidents job performance which gets totally lost when folks try to figure out why Trump, the challenger won. They tell you it was the economy, inflation, rising prices, immigration, crime, a thousand other issues, but all those issues will eventually fall into job performance category. 59% of all Americans thought Biden did a lousy job as president. No sitting president has won reelection nor has that sitting president’s replacement won the election when a sitting president overall job approval was below 50% going back to FDR. The results of 2024 continued that streak. The list:

1952 Truman 33%, his replacement Stevenson lost to Eisenhower
1968 LBJ 43%, his replacement Humphrey lost to Nixon
1976 Ford 45%, Ford lost reelection to Carter
1980 Carter 37%, Carter lost reelection to Reagan
1992 G.H.W. Bush 34%, Bush lost reelection to Bill Clinton
2008 G.W. Bush 28%, his replacement McCain lost to Obama
2020 Trump 43%, Trump lost reelection to Biden
2024 Biden 40%, his replacement Harris lost to Trump.

You can see how polarized and divided we have become as a nation. 90% of democrats approved of the job Biden did, 8% disapproved. 5% of republicans approved, 92% disapproved. That’s partisanship, approval or disapproval carried to the extreme based only on party affiliation. From FDR through Bill Clinton it wasn’t unusual to have 30, 35% of the other party approving of the job the president was doing. 30% of republicans approved of the job Bill Clinton did during his presidency, 35% of democrats approved of the job Reagan did. Then beginning with G.W. Bush’s second term, through Obama, Trump, Biden you have 90% of the president’s party approving of the job the sitting president was doing, done. Disapproval in the single digits from the opposing party of the president. Approval, disapproval based only on party affiliation.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349234 02/26/25 01:28 PM
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A point that never seems to be part of political analysis discussions is the fact that lying - and I mean egregious, slimy salesman-style lying - is what persuaded a frighteningly large percentage of what I now call The Gullibles" into voting for such an awful person.

Facts don't matter to The Gullibles, reality is what they are gaslighted into believing.

How do reasonable and ethical people (by comparison - not implying that Dems are without warts) prevail in a world where outrageous lying rules, and lots of people believe those lies?


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
pdx rick #349235 02/26/25 01:34 PM
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For a sitting president having but a 40% overall job approval, the democrats historically wise did a great job. They lost the popular vote by 1.5 points, gained 2 senate seats while losing 4 senate seats. The democrats came darn close to winning last year. But close doesn’t count except in horseshoes, hand grenades and nuclear warfare. I get it.

With Biden’s numbers, one should have expected a GOP landslide. Only their nominating Trump prevented that. I think this can be shown in two sets of numbers, 59% of all Americans didn’t want a continuation of Biden/Harris governing or running this nation. On the other hand, 52% didn’t want a return of Trump even if that return meant being rid of Biden/Harris. The result was neither Trump nor Harris received a majority of the vote. It boiled down to who was disliked or unwanted the least which turnout to be Trump. Since Obama, we’ve had a huge increase in the number of folks who vote against a candidate/party and not for any candidate or party. As long as the candidate/party they’re voting against loses, they don’t care who wins. Slightly more people voted against a continuation of Biden/Harris and the democrats than voted against Trump. But neither was wanted, just like 2016.

Perhaps more important is that the democrats figure out why their voters didn’t turnout in 2024. 37% of all who voted in 2020 were democrats, only 31% who voted in 2024 were democrats. The republicans maintained 35% of those who voted both elections. The democrats need to look within their party, not without.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0

https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/national-results/general/us-house/0


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349236 02/26/25 06:22 PM
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Saving democracy, I posted her prior to the election on how Americans viewed that issue.
Yikes .... you have confused what people think or believe with reality. I am typing about reality. What did Trump say he was going to do and does that translate into saving Democracy or does it mean he was going to destroy it. The answer was not blowing in the wind, it was blatantly obvious. Now we can see just some of what he was talking about. Does it even resemble what a Democracy is all about??? He threatens everyone to do what he says i.e. he has weaponized the whole executive branch. If you resist, they will come after you. Free speech? really only for him and you better be singing his praises. He has subsumed congressional prerogatives. Does anyone think that is Democratic? He has packed the executive branch not with qualified people but with loyalists who will break the law for him. Does that sound like Democracy in action?

Of course MAGA which would account for about 50% would say he is saving Democracy, ,in fact they would say he is the savior of America .... maybe even the son of God and for sure he was sent by God. How would anyone think anything these folks think would be credible? When Hannity asked him if he would be a dictator, Hannity was hoping Trump would say no. Hannity was scared to death if Trump said yes, it would scare people from voting for him. Both Hannity and Trump are too stupid to understand their own base. Trump said it best when he said he could shoot someone etc etc and not lose a single vote .... abso-frakking-lutely .... but then he doesn't realize the obvious .... they don't care if he is a sexual predator (added value) and yet he wants to claim he isn't .... they don't care if he is a felon (added value) and yet he wants to claim he isn't ... he wants to claim he is not a dictator (real added value) and they don't care .... etc etc. He shouldn't care about anything he does because his base, MAGA, doesn't care what he does

So when you cite polls on this question, you are misrepresenting reality. And that reality is Trump is in the middle of a quiet coup to end Democracy and replace with a dictatorship. Once DOGE has eliminated all federal agencies Trump doesn't like, and Trump's team of TV personalities and oligarchs have purged the executive branch of people unwilling to bend the knee, he will have free rein to do as he pleases under the mantle of official acts of the presidency. He will proceed under the guise of what was once known as Democracy, but in reality it is but a facade, hiding a dictatorship. Already multi-media is acquiescing in fear of retribution from a weaponized executive.

So is this what saving Democracy looks like? If it is I need a different dictionary.

So I will once again type these words .... it was all about saving Democracy and nothing else matters


ignorance is the enemy
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America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



pdx rick #349237 02/26/25 08:29 PM
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I often wonder if the masses actually give a damned about their government, democracy, whatever. Perhaps is, basically, a home for people who just don't give a damn and have given up even trying. That being said, we have a show that defines the doings of Mr Trump every day, without fail. She set it up for 100 days. The man who either owns or runs her network (msnbc I think) has apparently gone to Trump which, I suspect, means that the show referred will be gone. Its interesting in that she has a really large group that is watching the show and the Democrats are actually trying to tell her she is wonderful with a letter with 1 million watchers signing in. That being the case, I am obviously wrong about people not caring. All that being said I wonder if there is actually a wakening when it comes to Americans in general. I do know that Trump is working, hard, to find any possible money he can grind out of our government to give to his friends the millionaire class.

Even that is really strange. Trump and the richest man in the world tell us of their doings. They make billion dollar successes on a number of things that, later, turn out to be lies. This is ongoing, it doesn't happen occasionally, it happens almost every day! It also seems that to get the money they are now deciding to lower what citizens are getting from their government. This includes little things, like health and welfare as well as education, etc. You know, things that we all like and expect. This, in turn, seems to be getting the citizens a bit worked up. All that being said, when we are told results of all of this, however, it seems that is not the case and most remain set in their ways. Perotista, for instance, studies the math on all of this and the results don't seem to be changing much.

Our nation is supposed to be run by two Political parties, the Democrats and Republicans. The Democrats are liberals in favor of, in theory, helping all citizens as much as they can. The Republicans, on the other hand, tend to have more strict thoughts about who gets what. I know, my definitions are a bit quick and not really defined but I suspect a reader will understand. Then its what each side does. The Democrats try to be everybody's friend and help. The Republicans, currently, own both houses of congress, fear their leader, Mr Trump, to the extent of actaully doing what every Mr. Trump tells them to do whether they like it or not and to keep their damned mouths shut (the Democrats, on the other hand are constantly running their mouths and doing little else. They are not a bonded group with a message, a plan, and a goal - they just hate the other side (well, actually, each side hates the other - its part of the current deal).

If the above is even close to the truth I am interested if anybody has an idea of how to bail out the entire situation. Its like belonging to a religion where all those belonging to the religion disagree on everything in the religion but haven't the common sense to try something else. I suspect that its time for the Democrats to, at least, try to do something else. Right now what they do is run their mouths and beg for more money. They just do not shut up and its not only boring but a pain in the butt. What we seem to have is a government which is a pain in the butt and I have no idea what can be done to fix it. NOBODY is happy! NOBODY is satisfied! NOBODY, as far as I can tell gives a damn! This is a problem! With all that going on what its all about is, basically, EVERYBODY's well being. What I do know if this keep going our pain in the butt government is going to be gone and there is nothing to replace it but I betcha the greedy will win it all. American is famous for greed. Hell, there are even shows on TV about our greed and greedy.

Right now we have given the greedy all the power - I wish us all good luck..........

Last edited by jgw; 02/26/25 08:33 PM.
pdx rick #349238 02/26/25 10:52 PM
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Fact, rporter, what people think or believe is what wins or loses election. That is reality in their minds. The problem all along with this is the democrats have spent 8 years going after Trump that when they, the democrats said that Trump was a threat to democracy, it came across as nothing more than another negative attack ad, another vote for my guy rhetoric. Few took it seriously.

Yes, I study the math jgw. What the math shows me is few Americans pay attention to the workings of government until an election nears. To the question, How much attention have you been paying to the 2024 election campaign for president? On 29 Oct 2024, just days prior to the election 51% answered a lot, 28% some, 15% only a little, 6% none at all. On 18 Feb 2025, that question was asked differently, how much attention do you pay to local, national or world news. 32% answered a lot, 25% some 32% a little, 10% none. The difference in the question is because there aren’t any elections scheduled until next year. The percentages that answered a lot are probably over inflated because few want to admit they don’t pay any attention to what the news or what is happening around them be it political or other news.

To back that up, you have this: After a year dominated by a relentless and intense United States presidential election campaign, Americans are looking for a break from political news, a new poll suggests.

The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll released on Thursday found that 65 percent of US adults said they felt the need to limit media consumption about politics and government “due to information overload [and] fatigue”.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024...lts-tuning-out-political-news-poll-finds


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349239 02/27/25 01:18 AM
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what people think or believe is what wins or loses election.
You missed my point!!!!

It doesn't matter what people think or believe. What mattered was it was actually that Democracy was on the line. What people thought or believed determined how they voted. The result despite what was thought or believed is that Democracy is dead.

Now ... if you believe Democracy is not dead and Trump saved Democracy ... well begin reporting how Trump is corrupt in national outlets and see how long it takes for AG Bondi to file suit against you.

Now ... if you believe anything else ... I mean absolutely anything else mattered then show me the light.


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pdx rick #349240 02/27/25 10:57 AM
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Only slightly off topic:

I was reading about the history of political rhetoric yesterday and stopped up on this paragraph, written shortly after Hitler's ascent to power.

Quote
What Hitler's power grab has shown is that the "masses" are not reachable through rational argumentation. The way the tempo of everyday life has been turned up has compounded the masses' inability to concentrate or show patience. Propaganda, by necessity, needs to do its work almost unnoticed - in the same way commercial advertising works - with simple, impactful slogans that are repeated and repeated again, that are consumed passively and sink in without one being consciously aware of the fact. It is not about being explanatory or proving anything: The slogan hammers its message home to the masses on the emotional/feelings plane until it becomes part of the masses' subconscious understanding of the world.

What we do here, and what liberals have been doing since the death of JFK (the last great liberal communicator), is explaining to death. People do not have the mental capacity, time, and/or patience to be receptible to rational argumentation. Whenever a Democratic politician starts in on why and how their policy is better than the alternative, all people hear is the "waa-waa" of an adult in a Peanuts cartoon. Many on this forum have been pointing out the obvious for years: the Democratic Party is doomed to failure until such a time as they produce a real communicator, a person who is able to speak to the masses using a rhetoric they are receptible to.

Unfortunately, I am afraid the time when that could have been effective has passed for the US. The takeover of the federal government by the forces of oligarchy / kleptocracy / kakistocracy is pretty much complete. There is only the sliver of a chance left that anything resembling a fair federal election will ever take place again.


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
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That’s where we differ rporter. I think it is important what the people believe or think as it’s their vote that decides who our elected officials/leaders will be. I would say most Americans view democracy as threaten. It’s by who or what is threatening democracy where they differ. Back when the election last year was between Biden and Trump, March of last year which I posted on this site. 34% of all Americans viewed Trump as the threat, 33% viewed Biden as the threat, 20% said both were a threat to democracy with only 13% stating neither was a threat. That’s a very high 87% of all Americans viewing our democracy is threaten, but by who is where they differ.

This is more recent, 28 October, just prior to the election which deals with both Harris and Trump, not Biden.

Majority of US voters say democracy is under threat but are split on who to blame, poll shows

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/28/election-democracy-poll

Personally, I view Trump as the threat, his MAGA faction in particularly. But being a political realist, I realize it how all Americans view the threat, who is the threat as it is all Americans who decide who are leaders will be and how our government is run. Knowing and realizing what all Americans are thinking, feeling, believing, if one knows that one can come up with a strategy to either counter act their thoughts and believes or reinforce their thoughts and believes depending on what their thoughts and believes are, their perception of what is going on. Locking oneself in a closest ignoring their believes and perceptions will do nothing to change their believes and perceptions.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349242 02/27/25 01:44 PM
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A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (27 Feb 1902-1968)


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
perotista #349243 02/27/25 05:50 PM
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I think it is important what the people believe or think
so what you're saying is we should take a poll of paranoid schizophrenics who suffer from delusions to make our decision on who should run the country. Great.

The reason your poll is no good, is MAGA views Trump as son of God, doing the work of God or sent by God. All of course delusional. So when you would do a poll of these folks you would have gotten a 100% Trump is saving Democracy. Just how valid do you think that poll would be?

So point out to these same people how Trump is destroying Democracy and their response would be 1. they don't believe it (he is son of God etc), 2. they don't care. The net result of a subsequent poll would reveal the same results. 100% saving Democracy.

So how can you think your poll would have valid results. A legitimate poll of non-delusional folks would have far different results. I would bet some 80% would view Trump as a threat to Democracy, which has been validated by his actions.


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pdx rick #349244 02/27/25 06:29 PM
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Who are the non-delusional folks? Are they only the ones that hold the same views you do? MAGA only makes up approximately a quarter of the electorate. Yet Trump came within two-tenths of a point of garnering 50% of the vote. Which means half of the votes Trump received were from non-MAGA voters.

Now why would non-MAGA voters vote for Trump? Perhaps they were part of the 57% who thought Biden and company had done a lousy job of governing and wanted someone else in charge. Of course, you probably classify 57% of all Americans who thought Biden and company did a bad job of governing delusional. Back on election day only 27% of all Americans thought Biden had this country headed in the right direction, 63% in the wrong direction. I suppose those 63% are also delusional.

Harris would have won if more people thought Biden and company had done a good job. The reason presidents like Reagan, Bill Clinton, G.W. Bush, Obama was at the time for their reelection, more Americans thought they had done a good job at governing than thought they hadn’t. In a democracy, it what all people think, believe, feel, not just a certain segment or political party. Isn’t protecting democracy giving everyone a voice, a say whether or not we agree with the results they give us. Which includes in our society, republicans, independents, democrats, MAGA, Trumpers, anti-Trumpers, the delusional and non-delusional.

I don’t blame the voters for Trump. If anything it was the failure of the Biden administration to address, bring under control, to solve the hot issues, the two most important issues of rising prices, inflation, illegal immigration to most Americans or a majority of Americans satisfaction.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349245 02/28/25 05:14 PM
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Who are the non-delusional folks? Are they only the ones that hold the same views you do?
You really going with that.

It is implicit in my comment ... non-delusional folks i.e. not MAGA. I explained what MAGA says i.e. Trump is son of God, he was sent by God he is doing God's work, he is Savior of America. Now if you believe or think MAGA are not delusional, make your argument.

I stated I believed about 80% of non-delusional folks would figure it out. Let's do some arithmetic. If 25% (using your number) are excluded, it leaves 75%. I said 80%, so we have, estimating because I don't think it's necessary to be exact in this case, about 56% of total population, which is about half which is what the polls show. At 75% we are even closer.

Now you may want to argue that some of the non-MAGA may be delusional as well and shouldn't be counted. You can argue that but let me point out the difference. The possible delusional non-MAGA recognize what it means to say Trump is a threat to Democracy because of his actions. MAGA ignores his actions as a threat or can't recognize them as a threat.

Again I type it, how could anything be more important than the loss of liberty? Trump is not just a threat to Democracy, he is in the process of dismantling our Democracy. Price of eggs ... who gives a frak .... Democracy is dead


ignorance is the enemy
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pdx rick #349246 02/28/25 10:34 PM
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And that was that. The president is either rapidly descending into dementia or is one of the biggest sadist in history - a person who, because of personal animus towards a world leader for not helping him tar-and-feather a political opponent, destroys the alliances the United States have led for over 80 years and throws the might of the US behind Russia, North Korea, and Iran.


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
Irked #349247 02/28/25 11:53 PM
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MAGA calls that saving American Democracy.


ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



pdx rick #349248 03/01/25 12:03 AM
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I think I have mentioned this before but I am going to do it again. Mr. Trump has been a failure throughout his life. Before he ever messed with politics he had a number of different businesses. I could list them bit they are not a secret if you simply send "trump failures" you will get several lists with no problem. My point is pretty simple. The mail fails, everything he touches turns to mud for him and now he is doing, exactly, what he has done before but this time the failure is going to be the United States of America. In this effort he has a great number of people helping, there are the White Christians, Idiots in love, pissed off experts in things national, etc, etc. etc. Then there is his very best friend, Elong Musk, the richest man in the world, a Canadian and guy who seems to kinda being running things. The people who have been put in charge of the United States of American are, for the most part, people who want to tear it all down.

What I am pointing out is that Mr. Trump is doing what he has always done. He has failed and his claims to be fixing the nation is just plain baloney. He is trying, hard, to destroy our nation.

Now this gets better. He runs the Republican political party. Apparently everybody there do what they are told by Mr Trump or he gets angry with them and they go down. In other words, any politicians, who claim to be helping and running the United States are actually working to take it all down as well. Another little problem is the Democratic party. There are a lot of people who are Democrats and there are many serving the nation. The problem is that, unlike the Republicans, they have no plan, no message, etc. They all have, I think good thoughts and good intentions but they are simply not together to save the nation. When Trump was president the first time and left 150 university historists said that he was the worst president in the entire life of the United States of America. It would appear that was easily ignored by the American Voting Public.

So, we currently have two basic organizations. One determined to destroy the United States of America, led by a professional loser, and one that has all sorts of good intentions but no real direction or apparent leadership. I would prefer that the United States remains. I have no idea what I can do to help the Democrats. I even think that lots of them know what their problem is it just seems that they can't get together.

Anyway, this is my really miserable thoughts on what is going on. My hope is that the Dems can get together, stop screwing around and start doing their jobs. Hopefully, someplace in the nation there is somebody, or a group, that understand the problem and will fix it.

I sincerely, hope I am flat out wrong and wish everybody luck..............

Should also mention that I am 90 years old and not even a millionaire and live on my social security which Mr. Trump wants to give to billionaires. (thought I would explain why I am so damned whiny)

Last edited by jgw; 03/02/25 12:41 AM.
pdx rick #349249 03/01/25 04:50 AM
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Today was the day when the music died.


R.I.P. Democracy


ignorance is the enemy
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America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



rporter314 #349250 03/01/25 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rporter314
Today was the day when the music died.


R.I.P. Democracy
Absolutly!

The first stage of grieving is denial!


Good doesn't always win!
pdx rick #349251 03/02/25 08:05 PM
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Wow! My intention was to, hopefully, have somebody to come and set out a plan for the Democrats to get going on. It was not my hope to shut it all down. I know there is somebody who can do that out of the thousands/millions of Democrats there has to be somebody with the brains it will take to do the task. I have seen several, on TV, with great thoughts on this subject. I do not remember their brains (and often my own) but I know they are out there!

Next time I hear somebody like that I will try and remember who and where they were from.

Last edited by jgw; 03/02/25 08:06 PM.
pdx rick #349252 03/03/25 08:01 AM
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The problem, I fear, is that it is too late. One could have a JFK suddenly appear and it wouldn’t matter. The forces of oligarchy and fascism have dug in so deep that they cannot be dislodged without some sort of epochal disaster - a disaster that most (if not all) of us here would not survive.


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
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Pretty soon there are going to be 3 (I think) places in the house that are going to need replacing. I suspect that the Democrats are going to work with a will to get every one of them. If they do then the Democrats are going to own the House. If they own the house then, perhaps, it will liven them and give them a road forward. If they screw it up, however.................

I am also assuming that the Republicans have done a really great job pissing everybody off which may be helpful..........

pdx rick #349254 03/04/25 11:59 AM
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Currently the House is made up of 218 republicans, 215 democrats, 2 vacancies. Both vacancies are in Florida. FL 01 formerly held by Matt Gaetz and FL 06 which was held by Michael Waltz.

https://clerk.house.gov/Members/ViewVacancies

The special election to replace both or to fill the vacancies will be held on 1 April. You had 2 Trumpers win the GOP primaries which are expected to win.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-...z-gaetz-edadda6d7c353821ce35415bd21b6ba5


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
Kaine #349255 03/04/25 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaine
Yeah, I think our democracy is pretty much over. It will take a miracle, a true miracle if they exist, for us not to fall!

Now my gut is acting up again and it's telling me soon, once he finishes his burning of the Constitution - I expect 8-10 months from now, around Christmas time - I think we will see Trump take us out of NATO and join alliances with Russia and China! They will become our allies. And at least half of the voting public will be fine with it.
My timeline might be off. They way he is going at it, this might happen by July 4th! Wouldn't that be a treat? I mean, he is alienating all of our allies and the only ones left that will have us as allies, are Russia and China.

mad frown


Good doesn't always win!
perotista #349256 03/05/25 08:46 PM
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The reality is, I believe after watching probably 100 interviews with MAGA and from my own personal experience being surrounded by MAGA, that it doesn't matter what Trump does or says or what happens as a result of what he does or says, they will continue to unconditionally support the son of God. So your comment noting those two candidates would probably win is a bit misleading ... of course they will win! ... it's a foregone conclusion!.

I see a number of pundits are proclaiming Trump is losing support for what is happening ... Yikes .... I believe anyone making those claims now are completely delusional and have no business speaking or writing for an audience greater than one. We are not even 100 days into the Reign of King Donald I, so anything said now would be irrelevant two years from now and maybe now even 50 days from now.

So let me confute my own comment, I say King Donald as it is clear he has subsumed all Congressional prerogatives at this point, and it is now clear that a Republican led Congress can even pass legislation, thus making the only "laws" are the fiats coming from the WH. Since that is the signature of a king, govern by fiat, I can safely conclude my comment is accurate.

Somehow, when I type the words the Reign of King Donald, it doesn't seem like Democracy is anywhere to be found. The SC just sided against Trump on a very narrow suit regarding USAID, which can in my opinion be interpreted as they supported the contractual agreements, it's black letter law and even then 4 MAGA justices thought Trump is indeed the king, so when he stops the flow of money from other streams, they will definitely side with him. Despite lower courts stopping the legal carnage, I suspect when these suits make it to the SC, they will side with Trump. After all he is the son of God, savior of America and in all respects is King of America.


ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



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pdx rick #349257 03/05/25 10:38 PM
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It appears GROK has determined Trump has a 75%-85% likelihood of being a Putin asset.

I guarantee no Congressional Russia hawk will say anything negative about this, nor will MAGA say anything. I suspect MAGA has already been Russified so being a Putin ally is good .... but they will never say anything negative about Trump. As the son of God, Trump can do no wrong. Vive le roi


ignorance is the enemy
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America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



pdx rick #349258 03/05/25 10:46 PM
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Of course they’ll win because FL 01 and FL 06 are deep red, solid, safe districts, rporter. I’ve seen and heard for the last month Trump is losing support. But I go by numbers, especially job approval numbers which really haven’t moved. I don’t go by what pundits or others say. Trump was at 49.0% overall job approval on 5 Feb, he’s at 48.8% approval today, a month later. I think what you need to keep in mind is MAGA makes up but a quarter of the electorate and republicans roughly 30% of the electorate. MAGA and most of the GOP will never desert Trump. But you have that remaining 20% will begin at sometime in the near future begin to desert Trump, go over to the opposition or switch to the disapproval side of the leger. Give it time. The first 100 days of any president’s term is considered the honeymoon phase. After that, folks start to hold the president accountable. In other words, Trump right now has inflated approval ratings as folks want to give him a chance.

Biden had a 57% job approval during the honeymoon phase, 42% from then on.
Obama 66% job approval during the honeymoon, 48% there after and so on


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
rporter314 #349259 03/05/25 10:48 PM
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One should infer there is about the same probability Trump-Putin are in collusion to partition Ukraine. The pace at which Trump wanted to get a deal on rare earths and tossing any leverage Ukraine had, blaming Ukraine, and Putin not giving up anything, should be at least thought worthy. Trump and Putin gets everything .... Ukraine gets nothing.


ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



perotista #349260 03/06/25 05:46 AM
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I'm taking that with a heavy dose of salt. I am still convinced Trump can not be thought of in the old ways. This is new landscape, and so requires a different lens. Trump has a huge advantage getting out whatever message he wants. Fox propaganda (and of course the rest of the right wing Trump echo chambers), and now in addition to Truth Social, he has effective control of X, and that does not include the WH bully pulpit. MAGA of course would have voted for Trump, but in addition, whatever the difference is to 50% of current election, voted for a sexual predator, and convicted felon. They know he is corrupt and yet voted for him. Now if you think you can put that in the old style analysis and come up with 49% approval, I think you should check your algorithm. In times BT (before Trump) no candidate with his baggage would have been nominated much less elected. Now AT (after Trump), it's clear any fool with the right message can be elected by an equally foolish electorate. My point being 49% AT may be equivalent to 75% BT.

New lens


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pdx rick #349261 03/06/25 01:30 PM
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This latter half, the non-MAGA half who voted for Trump, was their vote actually for Trump or against Biden, his administration which Harris as VP was part of and the democrats for how they governed the last four years? A situation where any challenger to the incumbent would have done. We’re talking about a sitting president with a 39% overall job approval, 57% disapproval. A sitting president whose handling of the economy was 39% approve/60% disapprove, immigration 33% approval, 65% disapproval, inflation at 34% approval, 64% disapproval. This is what that latter half, the non-MAGA half voted against, their vote wasn’t for Trump in that they wanted Trump to win, they just wanted the democrats, Biden and Harris gone. Trump just happened to be the challenger to the sitting administration.

You’re correct rporter, this wasn’t a normal election. The distasted and dislike of Trump was still present. Given Biden and company’s numbers, last years election should have been a cake walk for the republicans, a landslide which it wasn’t. There’s been 8 presidential election since the end of WWII where the sitting president had an overall job approval of below 50%. The sitting president or the sitting president’s replacement lost all 8 elections. That’s history. Carter 1980 and Biden last year had almost identical numbers. Trump won by 1.5 points to Reagan’s 11-point win in the popular vote. Reagan margin probably would have close to 15 points if Anderson hadn’t garnered 6% of the vote. Reagan carried 44 states, Trump 31, Reagan won the electoral college, 489-49, Trump won 312-226. The republicans in 1980 gained 35 house seats, the republicans lost two house seats last year, the GOP gained 12 senate seats in 1980 to 4 for the republicans last year.

Although Trump won, he prevented a landslide win for the republicans as their nominee. Trump made last year’s election a very close election when historical numbers state that election should have been a wipeout for the GOP as Reagan and the Republicans did to Jimmy Carter and the democrats in 1980. Trump benefited from our two-party system. When a voter is totally dissatisfied with the party/candidate in power, there’s no choice but to vote for the other party/candidate even if the voter doesn’t want that other party/candidate in power. There’s no viable third choice for the voters to vote against both candidates/parties. They’re left with voting for the candidate/party they want to lose the least.

Interesting poll taken on 29 Oct 2024, prefer Harris over Trump 39%, prefer Trump over Harris 40%, prefer both equally 20%. Now if you take prefer both equally to also mean you prefer neither one, that poll makes more sense as there was no way to vote against either one other than staying home. The two-party system. Which voter turnout dropped from 63% in 2020 down to 59% in 2024. 3 million less voters in 2024 than in 2020 although those eligible to vote increased by 7 million.

However, the seeds for a banner midterm for the democrats are already sown, give them time to sprout.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349262 03/06/25 03:49 PM
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However, the seeds for a banner midterm for the democrats are already sown, give them time to sprout.
I fear we won't have a true and fair election next year. We might be in a full blown dictatorship by then!


Good doesn't always win!
pdx rick #349263 03/06/25 08:38 PM
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For me, its all VERY strange. When I watch the TV all they can talk about is how, when Republicans goto meeting, they get chewed on and screamed at. The suggestion is that the Republicans are loosing a bit. Then the numbers come in and that is not really the state of things. Trump, however, is doing exactly what he did when he was the worst president the United States had ever had. Last night, and today, I listened and watch TV and everybody seems to be talking about how trump is doing, exactly, what he did the first time he was president - basically, he took a pretty good economy and screwed it up! One thing you can count on, when its Trump - he screws it up. His history proves that means he screws up EVERYTHING! The Difference, this time, is that he has a large group of supporters who love, believe, and adore Mr Trump. I was talking to a lady, yesterday, who came home (she doesn't live here) to visit and found that her father and mother are part of maga bigtime. She said she brought facts about what Trump said and what the truth was - they ran her out of the house for even suggesting any such thing. Lest we forget - these people are NEVER going to change their Trump belief, no matter what Trump does.

Everybody I know, who do not like Trump, are just as puzzled as the lady whose family are serious maga folk. they are, as explained, not even half of those who vote but then we have the rest. One would think they might understand and not vote Trump/Republican. Again and again this too has been tested and it just makes no sense!! (I think) Our problems, from the beginning, is that we have a voting public which is incredibly ignorant, haven't a clue, do not give a damn (remember, something like 20% of the Democrats didn't even vote last time around!!) and are too busy to even care. I have wondered, a lot, how and why such a thing has happened. I have been told, for instance, that high schools are no longer teaching students about their own government. I asked about this and Port Angeles said that have always done that. Kind makes one wonder.

Anyway, we currently have a Democratic party which is almost trying. We have a public voting public which, obviously, has serious mental problems. I think it started with voting in a real criminal, with a real bad record which was simply ignored by a majority, a small one but still a majority. That group didn't do it just once but TWO times! This, even when he was considered, after his first time, as the worst president in United States history! i do not get it. Perhaps the Republican side understands why and how they have won and the Democratic side are like an old lady who knows everything when she knows nothing. I still don't get it!

I have hoped to see the Democrats at least win available votes for congressional candidates are current. That is going on right now. We will see but, well, you all know.

I'm sorry - I just do not get it!!

pdx rick #349264 03/07/25 12:31 AM
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Trump had that same large group who loved and supported him during his first term. Trump’s actions led to 42 seat gain in the house in the midterms and a loss to Biden in 2020. In the 2018 midterms, 8% of those who voted for Trump in 2016 voted democratic. 7% of those who voted for Trump in 2016 voted for Biden in 2020. But in 2024, 5% of those who voted for Biden in 2020 voted for Trump while 4% of those who voted for Trump in 2020 voted for Harris. The big difference wasn’t so much in voters who switched, it was the drop in the percentage of democratic voters who went to the polls. From 37% among those who voted in 2020 down to 31% while republicans remained at 35% of those who voted in each election.

I, unlike most of you if not all, I don’t blame those who voted for Trump. I blame the democratic voters of 2016 and 2020 who stayed home in 2024. Democratic voters made up 31% of those who voted, Harris received 95% of them. Democratic voters made up 37% of those who voted in 2020, Biden received 94% of them. I’m still trying to figure out why those previous democratic voters stayed home in 2024 which is hard to do since there are no exit polls of those who didn’t vote. Only theories advanced by the political pundits and prognosticators. Although usually the smaller of the two major parties, the republicans have a better history of getting their folks to the polls than the democrats. Which was definitely the case last year.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
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Here is one I just heard today. Amy Coney Barrett, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court has not been voting the Trump way. I have been told that the white christians are experiencing a brake of sorts which agrees with how she has been currently voting. The White christians is a major part of the Trump magas I think. This may REALLY shake things up a bit.

Just thought I might mention it.............

perotista #349266 03/08/25 01:28 AM
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this wasn’t a normal election
Yeah ... I don't think you are understanding what I am typing.

BT (before Trump) analysts had a certain set of criteria which they used to make sense of what happened politically. Thus they could compare results and derive some reasonable explanations for those results.

How that would appear is there was a standard set of criteria {A, B, C, ..., Z} which when combined in certain well described rules would result in numbers or some other result. I'll use © to indicate some political operation to analyze. Thus BT we would have, regardless of who, what, or the time, A © B => Ra (Result a). Analysts could compare this result with others from other years to try and understand what happened. This is the standard garden variety scheme which everyone is using.

What I am saying is using the same set of criteria (it shouldn't change because times or people have changed) we may be getting different results. Thus BT analysts would ask the question what about A © G © S =>Rz. I am saying asking the same question AT, what about A © G © S =>Rx, thus one would not be able to compare results. The difference is the BT operator "©" has morphed AT into a different operator, "®". So despite the fact both returned numbers we can't make valid comparisons until we understand how © -> ®.

So when I typed 49% (AT) may be 80% (BT), it is because the operators have changed, and until the "new" operator is understood, all results are invalid. How I know there is a new operator should be obvious ... BT no one with the criminal record Trump has would have even been considered for any elected office, and look now .... he nominated sexual predators, TV personalities, as well as disqualifying sycophants, and no one says a word. We live in a different world AT, it requires a new lens to understand it.


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Unfortunately, the so-called victory for law and order in the Supreme Court’s USAID case was nothing of the sort. They simply ruled that the US had to pay for work already completed. Then they said the the administration can use whatever criteria they wish when adjudicating whether the invoices are valid or not.

The Supremes did not deny Trump the right to arbitrarily ignore federal law and cancel any spending he wishes despite what the Congress has enacted.


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Trump 2.0 = Purposeful sabotage and destabilizing of America and its society. Putin is pleased.


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The Supremes did not deny Trump the right to arbitrarily ignore federal law ...
Trump allies continue to proclaim he is the executive and has the "right" to do as he wills regarding anything in the executive branch, which they include as agencies and their budgets. I suspect when the suit returns addressing the future expenditures of agencies, the Supremes, as you have indicated, would align with Trump in probably a 6-3 vote.

I wonder how long the charade Congressional Trumpists call Democracy will last? Senatorial Democrats will surely oppose every extremist bill coming from the House, and I am not certain the House will ever forward a rational bill on anything of importance. The agenda is clear, and it is not American Democracy. At some point Trump will simply start making law by EO, I suspect. I don't see the SC rebutting this.

Anyone still believe we live in a Democracy? It's only going to get worse.


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One of the great political nutcrackers of recent times is currently in the works. House Trumpists have crafted an appropriation bill putting Senate Dems in the meat grinder. Dems are frakked if they vote against it ... they're frakked if they vote for it. So it begs the question, why do people think the Dems can actually do anything to rebut Trump?

But I think there is an upside or a positive view. House Trumpists could have included complete abdication of any Constitutional Congressional input into government processes and didn't. So Dems have a weak bluff going forward which would thwart many MAGA influenced bills, until Trump decides he no longer needs Congress for anything.


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It's even worse. Trumpists in the House are now openly advocating Trump should have control of appropriations, which is tantamount to a declaration Congress is a waste, abuse, and a fraud of taxpayer money.

Constitution? what is that?


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pdx rick #349274 03/14/25 10:00 AM
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If the Democrats are stupid enough to vote for the continuing resolution because they are worried about being blamed for a government shutdown, then they will abdicate what little leverage they have and remove any reason for anyone to ever vote for them again.

The messaging shouldn’t be hard:

* This will take healthcare away from millions of seniors and children and throw more children into homelessness and hunger all in order for Musk to pay even less in taxes than you do.

* This isn’t a budget. How about the Republicans actually present a budget under standard procedure instead of endless stop-gap measures? Do your job!

* If the Republicans want to pass this then they should do it with their own votes. There is nothing in the continuing resolution that addresses the concerns of our voters, regular Americans. If they want our votes then they need to address the concerns of everyday Americans and not billionaire oligarchs.

* Go ahead and nuke the filibuster. It has been abused beyond any recognition for the last 15 years. It’s time it was tossed in the dung heap and majoritarian rule was actually established. Then there might be real accountability when the majority can enact their policy and get to face their constituents without the excuse that they didn’t deliver what they promised because of the mean old filibuster.

Imagine a world where politicians enacted their policies and then faced the consequences of such policies. Radical!


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
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One of the main things Trump is doing is Tariffs. As far as I can tell a Tariff is a thing that is specific and is a tax on stuff being imported into the United States. His plan is to raise the prices so that nobody buys that stuff and its possible for companies, in the United States should be making whatever thereby making more jobs available.

The other day tv showed Somebody thanking Trump for doing that (for something to do with metals) because it will help his business. I am assuming that meant that with the Tariff in place the metal worker will do better because he will now be able to sell his profit. In other words, Trump is raising a price so people can buy a product that another person/contry could produce the same item cheaper (even after importation). This is kinda interesting in that he is also is promising everybody that things are going to be cheaper than they are now. Now he is razing prices, for some things, for something like 200%

I suspect that I am missing something lhere. Wonder if anybody can set me straight.

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It is strange and I haven't read anyone who will say what I am about to type. The prices of some US made goods is X and some foreign countries export the same item for X-20 (or whatever). Some US consumers will buy the foreign product cheaper than the US product. Now when tariffs are enacted, the price of the foreign goods increase to a price greater than X-20. Presumably the US consumer will buy the US product since it has become cheaper. In doing so the US consumer will be taxed for the difference he was paying for the price he is now paying anyway. In either case the US consumer has seen a tax on goods.

The forward thinking is that at some point, US manufacturers will increase production and the US products will become cheaper. Unfortunately for this time in history, the US has moved past a manufacturing phase in capitalism, and there is no interest by enough companies to re-enter heavy manufacturing, so it won't do much good.

Bottom line is the US consumer WILL pay more ... because of flawed thinking by a nitwit who probably failed to attend economics classes at Wharton. Of course all of his brain dead economic advisers are boot licking sycophants, who will simply regurgitate what the boss says in order to keep their position of power.


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pdx rick #349277 03/15/25 02:20 PM
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Another thing about tariffs is that history has shown that manufacturers in the US will raise their prices to match the tariff. Manufacturers ask, why should the government get that money instead of the manufacturer? Sure the manufacturer might lose some sales, but they will lose sales anyway when they increase their prices to pay for the tariffs. So, instead of the consumer paying the government (through product price increases) for the tariff, we are paying for the manufacturer to make a better profit. Consumers (you and I) lose every way you look at it. Good for manufacturers, bad for us!


Good doesn't always win!
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I have mixed feelings on the CR. It was a lose-lose situation for the democrats and for our democracy!

I originally wanted to see a protest against what MAGA has been doing to our country and do a shutdown. The GOP wants to not be bipartisan and run things only their way, then make them run it alone! But then I heard Schumer's reasonings. I understand what Schumer was saying. If the government shut down, the republicans would have been in no hurry to get it reopened - no off ramp. Once people started missing their SS payments there would have been a huge hatred towards the democrats. I hate to say it, but I think democrats are our only hope for making it out of the mess we're in. Democrats need to take control of at lease one of the houses in 2026! They have to or we will not be getting out of this mess for decades! The more people suffer from a shutdown, the more the republicans would have benefited.

Also, when in shutdown, they could have deemed almost all federal employees "non-essential" and gotten rid of them all! That would have been catastrophic to the country. That might be hyperbolic, but who knows how far Trump would have taken it? At least, as devastating as how MAGA is going about it, employees have a legal path they can follow. I doubt that there is a legal path they could take during a shutdown.

I was thinking maybe have a short term CR for 60 days and during that time, congress could have made a new bipartisan budget.


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It was a lose-lose situation for the democrats and for our democracy!
Yes Trumpists won this battle and perhaps the war to stem Trump from running completely roughshod over the residual branches of power. My preference was for Democrats to vote against the CR, shut the government down, and bring House Trumpists back to negotiate. However, Trumpists had the winning hand, and by that I mean Rep Johnson (read that to mean Trump) extorted recalcitrant House members to vote for the resolution. This means the Democrats had no leverage with which to negotiate. Under a normal occupant of the WH, this would have worked. But when we have mad King Donald in control of MAGA, it becomes easy to extort elected officials, who lust for power, with expulsion. The Democrats had a losing hand and may continue to have a six high hand with no matching suits.

As for Democracy ... well .... Trump has not quite completed his mission, but continues to trample on the Constitution ... and MAGA loves it. Pundits keep saying Trump is losing support ... well not quite true. He may be losing some non-MAGA voters who selected him to bring grocery prices down, but not MAGA. But you type ... townhalls!!! ... really. After they vent their dissatisfaction with their elected representative, they will continue to support Trump. They will use pretzel logic to rationalize and justify their support for Trump. Like so many interviews I have seen with Trump supporters (and from personal experience), when asked the question, is there anything Trump could do which would force them not to support Trump, the answer is always .... no ... always.

For the time being the lower courts are holding the line, however Trump has already begun a campaign of demonization of the courts, himself, and his allies, including spokesperson Leavitt. There are over 100 cases relating to Trump;s monarchical fiats, which are all destined to wind up in the SC. I am not convinced the Trumpist majority will falter. Hard right conservatives have been working on destroying the federal government for many years. They now have a willing idiot at the helm, easy to manipulate, to do the job. The SC will be more than willing to implement ultraconservative legal views into their opinions. These opinions will only be beneficial to not only encouraging Trump to act as king, but will effectively destroy Democracy. Now if you believe retaking Congress will change it, perhaps you should take a look at the court. These folks are locked in for a generation, and Trump will have the opportunity to appoint even crazier justices should the oldest retire. Now if you're hoping the SC judges against Trump, well, suppose they do. At some point narcissism will emerge and as king, Trump will ignore the courts, after all they are degenerate lunatics.

Can't happen in America ... I think someone said while on the Titanic after struck by iceberg ... not going to sink


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A couple of things here. First, If the Democrats didn't do what they did then our ENTIRE government would be shut down. This also means that Trump would just keep on going and never turn it on again. He is capable of that one.

The part I really do not understand is why are the Republicans in congress fear Trumps threat to put somebody up against him/her. The simple fact seems to be that there are now a lot more republicans starting to wonder what the House and Senate were sent to do given that they are doing NOTHING!! When there are gatherings this seems to be the casel.

The third thing is Trump, and his history. You can actually go onto google and ask "show me the list of Trump failures" and you will get his history. Now, however, he is working his magic on the United States of America. As far as I can tell he is working REALLY hard to screw that one up tool. The only question is whether the Democrats can get themselves somebody to lead them. I have been wondering what would happen if Kamala Harris has the backbone to say; "I lost the last election to Trump by 1.50% The reason I lost is because 20% of the DEMOCRATS did not vote!. I am willing to try and lead the Democratic party. This time, I suspect, all Democrats WILL VOTE! Trump, right now, is not making a lot of friends. Right now, we have no leader, we have no message, we have no plan and we are getting worked over and its got to stop.

Thoughts?

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why are the Republicans in congress fear Trumps threat to put somebody up against him/her.
Elected MAGA have no fear, they simply do what Trump orders or suggests them to do. The others range from moderate to more conservative, but not necessarily Trump sycophants, have power or the perception of power and don't want to lose it. I think they see it as an avenue to actually get some things done, but not necessarily Trump's radical restructuring of government. You can't get those things done sitting on the outside while crazy Trumpists are destroying America. O the threat is real enough ... once MAGA is aroused.

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The only question is whether the Democrats can get themselves somebody to lead them.
I see a lot of smart people but none having a real presidential persona. I like Buttigieg. If he had debated Trump it would have been the most comedic massacre on any side of the Mississippi. I suspect he may be gearing up for a run in 28.

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all Democrats WILL VOTE! Trump, right now, is not making a lot of friends.
I think "P" said it already ... non-MAGA voted against Biden's economy. What you're saying is, non-MAGA and Democrats will vote against Trump's currently bungled attempts at running an economy.

It's in my signature ... we can survive bad policy but Trump appears to be on the threshold of completely destroying Democracy. Already he has emergency powers to implement tariffs without Congressional consent, and now he wants to invoke the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 tantamount to emergency war powers. With it he can deport non-citizens and apparently (and I am speculating) there is nothing in the language to prevent him from sending citizens to gitmo. Next will be the Insurrection Act of 1807 and I believe there are enough crazies in the military who would follow orders. O did you say something about next election .... LOL ... only in your wildest dreams will he allow another free and fair election.


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Irked #349282 03/16/25 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Irked
If the Democrats are stupid enough to vote for the continuing resolution because they are worried about being blamed for a government shutdown, then they will abdicate what little leverage they have and remove any reason for anyone to ever vote for them again.

The vote wasn't as simple as that. On one side of the coin, you had Dems saying they have to vote NO on cloture, NO on the CR, or they’ll be giving into extortion which won’t stop the ongoing destruction of government.

On the other side of the coin, and what received little attention is that had the government shut down, a shutdown would provide Trump a way to halt legal proceedings by deeming those lawyers non-essential. John Marshall writes in Talking Point Memo:
Quote
... Dems was the fear that a shutdown would slow down or stop the various court cases against DOGE. Honestly, that sounded so stupid to me that I was skeptical. But this afternoon I heard it from other key directions. I don’t know if it’s the biggest driver but just on the basis of what I heard I get a sense that it’s a major one. That seems so wrongheaded, so lawyer-brained, that when I got the final piece of the puzzle in front of me and realized this was a real thing, it was hard for me to even process.

Many believe the best way forward as things keep things going as they are, is that the courts can save us.


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Originally Posted by rporter314
It is strange and I haven't read anyone who will say what I am about to type. The prices of some US made goods is X and some foreign countries export the same item for X-20 (or whatever). Some US consumers will buy the foreign product cheaper than the US product. Now when tariffs are enacted, the price of the foreign goods increase to a price greater than X-20. Presumably the US consumer will buy the US product since it has become cheaper. In doing so the US consumer will be taxed for the difference he was paying for the price he is now paying anyway. In either case the US consumer has seen a tax on goods.

The forward thinking is that at some point, US manufacturers will increase production and the US products will become cheaper. Unfortunately for this time in history, the US has moved past a manufacturing phase in capitalism, and there is no interest by enough companies to re-enter heavy manufacturing, so it won't do much good.

Bottom line is the US consumer WILL pay more ... because of flawed thinking by a nitwit who probably failed to attend economics classes at Wharton. Of course all of his brain dead economic advisers are boot licking sycophants, who will simply regurgitate what the boss says in order to keep their position of power.

I floated this idea on a Rightie dominated forum recently:

Quote
Seems obvious that subsidizing U.S. manufacturing would be a more direct and productive method for “bringing back” industry than tariffs. Same amount of “short term pain”, but without the what-ifs and upfront cost and risk of establishing or growing businesses on the gamble that in five years they might be profitable. New jobs would appear instantly, too.

The tax burden would be the same - tariffs are taxes, too. And the subsidy route would put the funds directly back into the economy. Jobs created would benefit lower income workers, not the class of people who make more money than they need by playing with their excess dough. Maybe keeping folks off of unemployment compensation and food stamps and saving the government there, too.

People with jobs have the capacity to purchase the produced goods - that’s a huge factor in the equation.

So, use the tariff tax revenues to support the industries that the tariffs are supposed to be protecting.

I see avoidance of the fact that subsidies would provide upfront material benefits to job creation, the economy, and allay welfare costs.

Tariffs have no tangible benefits, except taxing consumers for federal revenue - the other supporting arguments are all long-term speculation.

That's an amalgam of several posts responding to comments of utter abhorrence of subsidies being Socialism, and encouraging laziness and freeloading; and tariffs somehow being Capitalism, exhibiting strength, power, and dominance. I pointed out that both were acts of government interference in the sacred doctrine of free markets, but one type comes with immediate tangible benefits, the other being nothing but a heinous TAX (gasp!) consisting of empty and delusional speculation, putting more money in the much despised federal coffers.

Still no takers...

Folks, we are not dealing with a political problem, we are faced with mass insanity - a severe, widespread toxic personality disorder. Thinking about it from that perspective might make a difference in charting a path through the storm.

Last edited by logtroll; 03/16/25 11:30 PM.

You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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the courts can save us
Ahh ... the eternal optimist

So, one should ask the question, predicated on the assumption there is a dictator in office, what would any righteous dictator do once in power? Would they allow free and fair elections? [The ones who have were almost immediately arrested for crimes against the state and imprisoned, and the ones who don't are still in power]. So we should expect there will not be free nor fair elections in 28 and maybe not in 26. Just one aspect for which to ponder.

Now as to the Courts, we have already seen the Supremes handing over monarchical power to Trump. So why would they back down now? Currently we have Trump allies calling on Roberts and Barrett to support Trump's power. That's a message from Trump. I have a hard time trying to decipher the calculus of an extortion against a Supreme, but it is clear at least 4 are firm hard supporter of Trump's power and probably an enhancement of that power. Gee he's the King .... I mean president. So I don't think it would take much to push either over to the side of dictatorship.

However, the lower courts have indeed in most cases tried to hold the administration to the rule of law. Unfortunately they are not the final written in stone opinion. For that we have to hold our breath while a 6-3 SC decides in the favor of the Law or political ideology. One example is the detention of a green card holder. Does such a person have the same rights as a citizen and can thus freely without government retribution express their political beliefs? I am 75% certain the Trumpist majority will sustain the government. Now if you think that sounds like a dictatorship, well it is.

Finally to wrap it up, and I am not the only person who has expressed this concept and it is getting more widespread coverage, there is no enforcement mechanism of a court opinion. To circle back, would a dictator allow the courts to dictate that dictatorial fiats are illegal? I have a smile on my face if you think so. Trump has already rebuffed court orders. Once this sinks in, why would anyone believe he won't simply ignore any order which doesn't appeal to his narcissistic delusions.

Yes my brother you are a short term optimist. I am a long term optimist. I know in 100 or 200 years the inertia of historical progressiveness will crush ideas which fail to adapt. That flame will always burn bright.


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o gee Trump WH openly acknowledges they openly defied a court order.

Does anyone need more evidence????


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The whole idea that Schummer had to back the cloture vote is flawed. So, the Republicans would blame the Democrats for shutting down the government. And so? The Democrats could just as easily frame the Republicans as the ones closing down the government.

The whole idea that they would be blamed for SS checks not arriving is easily countered. The Republicans had/have multiple avenues toward keeping the government functioning:

* Pass an actual budget
* Amend the continuing resolution to make it more palatable for Democrats and their voters
* Nuke the filibuster and pass the CR with their own votes

What the Dems have now done is to remove any reason for anyone to ever vote for them again. They are unwilling to do anything to stop the destruction of democracy in the US. They are unwilling to do anything to advance the concerns of the people who voted for them. All they seem to care about is to look like the adults in the room. Well, they've tried that for 25 years now to no avail. Maybe it is time to choose a different strategy, cuz this one ain't working.


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There hasn’t been a budget passed on time since 1996. Which at least to me, means every congress since then has failed to do their job. I also think nuking the filibuster would be a very bad idea much like Senator Harry Reid’s first use of the nuclear option. How’d that work out? One thing for sure without the nuclear option the SCOTUS would look totally differently today as 60 votes would have been required for cloture. Which means the minority party regardless of who is president would have a say, a voice on who is confirmed to sit on the highest court in the nation.

I don’t get excited over one bill, one happening or one event. The actions of Trump as president and the GOP controlled congress will be put on the line come the midterms of 2026. There’s a slow trend going against both. But it’s slow and it takes time. Elections are referendums, usually on the party or president in power. The out of power party or the challenger usually doesn’t have to do anything or stand for anything except be there as an alternative. 2024 was a referendum on Biden and the democrats since they were in power. 2022 a referendum on Biden and company when the GOP regain control of the house. 2020 a referendum on Trump with his 41% overall job performance approval. 2018 another referendum on Trump and then the GOP congress which resulted in a 42-seat gain in the house for the democrats and so on. In any election around a quarter of the population votes based on how they deem the current president and congress are doing their job. If they approve of the job being done, they reelect and if they disapprove, they vote for the challengers. It is really simple; my advice is not to read too much into all of this. With both major party’s strength being even these days, election results are front and centered on this quarter of the electorate.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349293 03/17/25 03:58 PM
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The filibuster has not lead to a centrist bill or confirmation in decades. It has led to the side willing to play hardball (read: the Republicans) getting their way.

If Reid had not done away with the filibuster for SCOTUS appointments, we would be sitting with a 9 - 0 ideological «split». Republicans would never have allowed a single «liberal» to be confirmed and would have waited until they had a Republican president before filling any vacancies. If anyone has any doubt, I give you Gorsuch and Barrett.

The Congress in general and the Senate in particular are are not the same as they were when we were children. One party has embraced maximalism to its upmost, even stating multiple times they they will never compromise with the Devil, i.e. liberals.

To keep pretending that nothing has changed in 60 years and to keep on operating as if all the old rules and procedures still apply is a sure recipe for ruin.

Everything is always changing. Adapt or die.


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
rporter314 #349294 03/18/25 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rporter314
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the courts can save us
Ahh ... the eternal optimist
We have three co-EQUAL beaches of government. If the legislature is not going to hold Trump accountable; the courts must.


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pdx rick #349295 03/18/25 04:33 AM
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why would you think that matters to a dictator?

The ink used to write the Constitution is evaporating .... and the courts can't stop it


ignorance is the enemy
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America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



pdx rick #349299 03/19/25 02:31 AM
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...federal judges can hold parties in civil or criminal contempt. Civil contempt isn’t about punishment, but about forcing a party to comply with an order or certain conditions. Courts can impose fines or even jail time, but once a party complies, civil contempt ends. Criminal contempt punishes someone for disobeying court orders, but it’s a nonstarter here because the president has complete pardon authority and could pardon anyone charged.

Civil contempt is another story. During Trump’s first term, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos was held in contempt and fined after violating a court order to stop the collection of certain student loans. In 2003, the Environmental Protection Agency was held in contempt when it failed to comply with an order about record preservation.

DOJ attorneys can be held in contempt, too. In 2009, U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan found federal prosecutors in contempt after they ignored his order setting a deadline to produce documents. At the hearing, Sullivan yelled, “That was a court order. That wasn’t a request. I didn’t ask for them out of the kindness of your hearts. … Isn’t the Department of Justice taking court orders seriously these days?”
dKOS.com


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pdx rick #349300 03/19/25 03:35 AM
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LOL ... harsh language from the courts ... think that will force Trump to do something? He holds the courts in great contempt ... they hate him ...

Trump is a narcissist. He knows he is above the law. So should any federal court hold Trump either civilly or criminally in contempt, how exactly will the court enforce the charge? O you think Trump will say yes Ill follow the orders of a lunatic deranged Trump hater. O wait the Marshall's Service will enforce the order you type. They are directed by the DoJ, currently run by a Trump loyalist who will certainly say ... stand down ... she will not follow that order from a corrupt Soros bought judge. O stop you say ... the Supremes will certainly put a muzzle on Trump .... LOL .... they'll actually be throwing a party in celebration they have become complicit in destroying Democracy ... the drinks are actually on them.

This is Trump a person without conscience or a sense decency. It is a new world order. The Europeans understand it. The question is why are Americans still taking their time comprehending the gravity of the situation???


ignorance is the enemy
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America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



pdx rick #349310 03/25/25 11:58 AM
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I find it discouraging that people seemed more up in arms about the Bush II administration than they are about Trump 2.0. But I suppose it was inevitable.

Americans seem to fall into one of three big buckets:

1) People who do not care enough to get involved in politics or anything to do with a wider community than their own family and small group of friends. If they engage in political discussions at all, they are in the vein of "It doesn't matter, they are all the same." If they vote at all, they will inevitably vote for the most well-known candidate that provides the simplest answers to the questions that register in their consciousness, i.e. their personal economy - invariably manifested in the price of gas.

2) People who are all-in on the path of the country. They want authoritarianism. They want discrimination against those who do not look or think like they do. They want chaos. They despise others, whether for gender, race, political leaning, religious beliefs, national origin, or education - any and all are sufficient reason.

3) People who believe in the principles laid out in the founding documents of the US and in the rhetoric of both major parties from the 1940s until the 1970s. This group is not as homogenous as some would have one believe: there are both traditional conservatives and traditional progressives in this group.

Group #3 is rapidly shrinking while group #1 is gaining. Group #2 doesn't care about demographics beyond what is necessary to gain control of the federal government. They have accomplished this with almost always less than 50% of the national vote.

Now that group #2 has gained complete control of the federal government and the party that represents group #3 has devolved into an incoherent and increasingly irrelevant entity, the complete takeover of state and local government is not far off. They are already silencing academia, the "free" press, law firms, technology firms, and state and local governments through intimidation and the cutting-off of funds.

Some think it is impossible that the government will outlaw the opposition. I am not so sanguine. This administration has followed the authoritarian handbook to a T so far. Why would they stop before they reach the finish line? Disqualifying candidates and declaring a party as anathema to a country's core beliefs has a long history; not only in other parts of the world, but in the US as well.

There is nothing to be done about the people in group #2. Group #1 can be activated, but it would take either a major economic collapse and/or a disastrous war. Even then, someone would need to step forward as a uniting force. If something doesn't happen soon, it won't matter - since that person would never reach the people once the regime has taken complete control of all media including the internet.


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
pdx rick #349312 03/26/25 11:12 AM
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A thought or two. Reference group 1. On average 45% of all eligible voters don’t bother to vote in presidential elections, 60% don’t vote in the midterms. These folks pay little to no attention to politics. They go about living their daily lives regardless of what is going on in government. Did you know only 37% of all Americans know who their representative is. That 57% can’t name a senator from their state. There’s an apathy out there among the masses when it comes to politics.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
perotista #349315 03/26/25 09:49 PM
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While the numbers you cite are historically valid, I don't think they tell the real story. In previous posts I have suggested the actual number of people for which politics is very important is very small. I unscientifically guess less than 10M, and probably closer to 3M - 5M. When I use the word politics, I do not mean people who simply vote, dedicated voters , knowledgeable voters, or pass by voters. I mean those who have made their voice heard and so have a visible profile, which has attracted attention. So for everyone else the only real meaningful politics any are interested is the economy, otherwise does it really matter who is in charge, be they benevolent kings or evil dictators? I don't judge them for this, as I think it true across the board, be it here or in some foreign land. For some however, there is a higher calling. For me I am one of Irked's group #3's. I prefer having a more forward looking party in power, but can easily tolerate a more regressive party. Like I have said, we can survive bad policy, no matter from where it emanates. What I am not sure about is whether we can survive the destruction of the Foundations of Democracy. Based on what Trumpists say and have said, I don't think so. They don't use the language of Democracy, rather the words from dictatorships. Certainly within the group of people who are not intimately involved in politics, there are large groups which have beliefs which run contrary to Democratic principles, so in the short term I don't see a vocabulary of unification. However, on the bright side for our future generations, as I have typed numerous times, the inexorable inertia of progressivism will win.


ignorance is the enemy
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America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions



pdx rick #349316 03/27/25 03:38 PM
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I’m one of those who basically just votes. But I do follow politics closely. I used to write letters and call my congressman and senators about this or that issue. But all I got back is a form letter telling me how good a job my congressman or senator is doing on this or that issue. Not a mention as to what I wrote them about with the required please send money at the end. I also donated to some candidates, but stopped that also.


It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.
pdx rick #349319 03/27/25 06:23 PM
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The thing about the public messaging that, amongst other things, revealed National Secrets did a really great job of displaying just how far Mr. Trump has gone in assigning folks to run our government and and his efforts to destroy the United States of America. There were a number of persons, high in our government, and not a single one of them, when this was revealed had the good sense to simply say something like; "We really screwed up, sorry, we will really try to do better". Not a single one. Even after the entire thing was revealed to the public they were still at it. Making excuses, denying that it happened, you know, virtually everything they could think of to just make it go away. After all, that is, exactly, what Mr. Trump does. If he wants something to go away he simply says that it never happened or he knew absolutely nothing about it. His minions, on the other hand, has not denied there was the thing just lied about it.

So, Mr. Trump is sticking to his efforts to fail, yet again. He has now installed a bunch of incompetent liars to get together together and help with the destruction of the nation. What really bothers me is the number of people who support this man. It would seem that a big portion of the American Voting Public lack common sense and are determined to adore one of the great public liars, and convicted criminal, in the history of the nation. I keep remembering when a newspaper started keeping track of, and counting the lies in his first presidency. They simply stopped when it got over something like 600 lies and counting. Nobody is doing this now its a kindofa "Who Cares?" thing.

I was going to rumble on but - well, you know..........

perotista #349320 03/27/25 08:46 PM
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perotista, your experience with your elected officials mirrors my own. The only exceptions have been Jack Metcalf and Rick Larsen the previous and current WA-2 Congressperson. Don’t get me wrong, they both asked for money and replied with form letters but they were form letters that addressed the questions/concerns I raised. Metcalf was an old fashion Republican like the late great Dan Evans. Larsen is a moderate Democrat.

I guess I was lucky there. Many other WA friends in other districts (and me when I didn’t live in the 2nd) have had the same experiences as you have described.


How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
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