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Originally Posted by stereoman
bandying terms

LOL

I mean the same for neocons and thus make appropriate allusions to PNAC, WS, AEI, and Heritage.

And I was exaggerating for effect but as I said was not their focus prior to 911. Since 911 neocons have gravitated toward using the term Islamo-fascism to give it a more sinister nuance
rather than Islamism.

As an aside have you noticed the lack of articles in recent years at PNAC site?


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Indeed. It's as if they didn't need to post anything else.


Steve
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A wonderful essay deconstructing the Bush Administration's debacle in Iraq, called 12 Books in Search of a Policy, reminds us why, aomng the many other sophistries used to justify the invasion, it is wrong to think that the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by "Islamists":
Quote
Holmes rejects any direct connection between Islamic religious extremism and the 9/11 attacks, although he recognizes that Islamic vilification of the United States and other Western powers is often expressed in apocalyptically religious language. "Emphasizing religious extremism as the motivation for the [9/11] plot, whatever it reveals," he argues, "…terminates inquiry prematurely, encouraging us to view the attack ahistorically as an expression of 'radical Salafism,' a fundamentalist movement within Islam that allegedly drives its adherents to homicidal violence against infidels" (p. 2). This approach, he points out, is distinctly tautological: "Appeals to social norms or a culture of martyrdom are not very helpful…. They are tantamount to saying that suicidal terrorism is caused by a proclivity to suicidal terrorism" (p. 20).

Instead, he suggests, "The mobilizing ideology behind 9/11 was not Islam, or even Islamic fundamentalism, but rather a specific narrative of blame" (p. 63). He insists on putting the focus on the actual perpetrators, the 19 men who executed the attacks in New York and Washington -- 15 Saudi Arabians, two citizens of the United Arab Emirates, one Egyptian, and one Lebanese. None of them was particularly religious.


Steve
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Here in plain simple English are the differences between Muslim, Islamic and Islamist.

Muslim; all people who are members of the religion of Islam.
Islamic; the people, culture, governments and political organisations influenced or run by Muslims.
Islamists; organisations, often terrorist ones, and the people who are in them that seek to make the world Islamic.


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Quote
It's as if they didn't need to post anything else.

Strange ... I had a very similar thought but had a tinfoil hat on at the time


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Interesting read!!! I suppose eventually we will see the truth of it all.

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Saddam Hussein was not a particularly religious man, yet he often cloaked his depredations in the mantle of Islam as well. I can think of other leaders here (in the U.S.) who have done the same with Christianity. In the same way, I think the PNAC crowd is using the fear of Islam(ism) as a prop for their otherwise wholly totalitarian garbage. Osama bin Laden does the same with his messianic view of the world. Does anyone really doubt that he is just a megalomaniac? Islam is just a prop, just as the Nazi's used "Gott Mit Uns", and some radical Fundamentalist Christians set store by "In God We Trust" to support incredibly outrageous claims. GWB uses some of the same techniques, and the call to "patience" is one of them. Does no one appreciate the religious basis for the request? Offer another cheek if you do...


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Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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What has greater appeal than religion even if people are not devout followers?


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The lists of historical depredations in the name if religion is extensive...


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Quote
Instead, he suggests, "The mobilizing ideology behind 9/11 was not Islam, or even Islamic fundamentalism, but rather a specific narrative of blame" (p. 63). He insists on putting the focus on the actual perpetrators, the 19 men who executed the attacks in New York and Washington -- 15 Saudi Arabians, two citizens of the United Arab Emirates, one Egyptian, and one Lebanese. None of them was particularly religious.
That suggestion is wrong!
Mohammed Atta's letter
Quote
• "In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate. . . . In the name of God, of myself and of my family . . . I pray to you God to forgive me from all my sins, to allow me to glorify you in every possible way."

• "Remember the battle of the prophet . . . against the infidels, as he went on building the Islamic state."

• In upper right hand corner of Page 3: "The last night."

• "Remind yourself that in this night you will face many challenges. But you have to face them and understand it 100 percent."

• "Obey God, his messenger, and don't fight among yourself where you become weak, and stand fast, God will stand with those who stood fast."

• "You should engage in such things, you should pray, you should fast. You should ask God for guidance, you should ask God for help. . . . Continue to pray throughout this night. Continue to recite the Koran."

• "Purify your heart and clean it from all earthly matters. The time of fun and waste has gone. The time of judgment has arrived. Hence we need to utilize those few hours to ask God for forgiveness. You have to be convinced that those few hours that are left you in your life are very few. From there you will begin to live the happy life, the infinite paradise. Be optimistic. The prophet was always optimistic."

• "Always remember the verses that you would wish for death before you meet it if you only know what the reward after death will be."
That is hardly what someone who isn't religious would write.


The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
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