Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Iraq & Afghanistan Bush On Iraq: "Just Be Patient"

The Prophet Muhammad, PBUH, and the Qur'an on lying.
What Mohammad Atta and the other hijackers did by partying, going to strip clubs and breaking other rules of their religion was to hide their fundamentalist beliefs in order to be successful in the 9/11 attacks. There is one fact about Islam that you should fully understand rporter, the fact that Islam's goal is and has been ever since the Prophet Muhammad, PBUH, started it was to conquer the world. Whatever it takes to conquer the world is completely acceptable for the Islamists to do. Would someone who ISN'T AN ISLAMIST plan the hijacking of planes so that he and his partners could fly them into buildings? To fly a plane into a building requires either insanity or suicidal dedication to a cause.

The world's civilisation started in the Middle East. The three monotheistic religions started in the Middle East. Our connection to the Middle East, Christianity, has existed longer than the religion of Islam. We cannot leave the Middle East.

The reason's you list, Will Write, are only the newest reasons for their hatred of us. They hated before those things ever happened! The primary overriding eternal reason for their hatred of us is that we are not members of their sect of Islam. They hate western civilisation because we are not members of their sect of Islam!
You don't. IMO, you have trouble seeing the forest for the trees.

yes senator, the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka have been using the suicide attack tactic for years agaisnt the sri lankan govtforces.

thank you for bringing it up. it puts what you term Islamist violence into context.

there are many twisted idealogies, dark doctrines and "pure" causes that promote and use violence of all kinds to pursue their political goals. Agressive democracies are no exception.

what is the difference, pray tell, in someone willing to bomb from 20,000 feet, kill civilians in pursuing their leaders political goals, and go home to have a pizza?

the dead are still dead, innocents still die, human death and terrorism are merely tools in the hands of those who want to impose their political, economic or sectional ideas.

no difference, all willing to kill for their leaders political goals, based on idealogy or doctrine drummed into them. its a feature of all societies, armies and empires. it has existed since the dawn of man and will probably continue until the end of humanity.

Well they didn't fool you did they?

Since I did not know who Mohammad Atta and his band of hijackers were until after the fact no he did not "fool" me. But he and the other 18 hijackers did fool a lot of people. If they hadn't been able to fool a lot of people they might not have been successful in their plans.

It seems what you are saying is that if only the authorities had known about their fundamentalist beliefs in advance, they might have been foiled. Is that it? Should we then be suspicious that the 900,000,000 or so Muslims who appear to be less than fanatical are in fact just trying to lull us into complacency?

Those are some very good questions, stereoman, I wish I had answers to them. I believe that if the authorities had known about Atta and company they might have been able to stop them. If someone had a guaranteed way to tell who is a Muslim and who is an Islamist that would be extremely helpful. Since such a test does not exist I don't know what can be done.

We can't leave because of religion? Christianity has existed longer than Islam therefore .... and both are derived from Judaism. Should we all therefore perfect ourselves and become Jews? And even older perhaps one of the pagan religions. There are some Christian fundamentalists who like the idea of Zionism because it fulfills the prophetic scriptures. Strange you would select Israel as your center when early Christianity moved away from Palestine as they could gain not many converts there as Judaism had a firm hold on the inhabitants. Instead early Christians found more converts in Greece, so why not cannonize the early Christian churches in Greece and Asia Minor?

When Pres Carter stated the ME was in our national interest he did not mean for religious reasons. He meant for geo-eco-political reasons i.e. protect Israel, control the oil, stop Communism's advances. No where does he say anything about staying in the ME for religious reasons.


Strange as I can find verses in the Qur'an which state Muslims do not hate the west. I can then say just as in the Bible one can find supporting verses for anything. But then perhaps Christians are using the "Giuoco Piano" plan of attack to take over the world. It would then be the most patient plan as it is older than Islam and would eventually crush them into non-existence.

I found what would appear to be your source of information. 1,400 Years of Christian/Islamic Struggle: An Analysis
Religious racism at it's best.

In what country was Jesus born, raised and died? Palestine/Israel. Because the man who the Christian religion is based on lived in Palestine/Israel all of Christianity is tied to the country.
Pres. Carter was a very devout, if not a born again, Christian. His religious beliefs had an effect on his actions. If you don't believe me I still have the Playboy magazine in which candidate Carter talked of how Christianity was a very important part of his life. Such this paraphrased comment of his "If being a Christian were to be a crime there would be enough evidence to convict me."
Where in the Qur'an are those verses?
Thanks for the link. I had not heard of U.S. News and World Report before you told me about it. But even after a quick reading of the article in CBN, often a very biased source, I can see that what the article says is not "religious racism" but the truth. I have studied religions for a long time and what the CBN article says I have read in sources such as the 1958 Encyclopeadia Britannica, Islam by Caesar E. Farah, Ph.D., University of Minnesota and two books from the Nations of the World series, Turkey (Volume XXVI) and Ancient History (Volume XXX), published in 1898. What are your sources for the claim that the article is "religious racism"?

They did know. Are you familiar with the case of Zacarias Massaoui?

But not to lose sight of the question I asked. It appears to me that you are suggesting we non-Muslims should suspect everyone of the Muslim faith of being an Islamist: those who act like radicals should be treated with suspicion because they act like radicals, and those who don't should be treated with suspicion because they might be behaving the way they do in order to deceive us into thinking they can be trusted, when in fact they cannot.

I recall that similar suspicions were leveled against African-Americans not too many generations ago. And Jews. Let's not forget the Jews!