Capitol Hill Blue Forums Life and Moral Issues Morality & Society I dont owe humanity a damn thing

I think we should pass on a world/country in approximately as good shape as we inherited it.

In general I agree with the sentiments previously expressed. We, individually and collectively, owe others as little harm and as much good as we can produce during our limited lifespans. The rub, of course, is what is "good"? Is economic security a good? Is propagation of bloodlines? Is physical security? Then we have to determine the balance between individual needs and collective requirements. Things then get complicated. Why, for example, are the birthrates in disadvantaged countries so high, but the advantaged countries, where it is possible to support more people, so low? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

It is hard to contemplate the larger picture without losing focus on the immediate surroundings: me, my family, my community where I live and work, my country, the North American Continent, the developed (western) world, humanity. If our goal is to expand beyond the Earth, we probably don't have enough people. If sustainability is the goal, we probably have too many.

Consider the pot appropriately stirred.

Hey, I drifted right along with you & maybe even paddled part of the way! Having said that, though, I think I'll stick with my original submission of the Asian proverb.

I owe respect to those I deem worthy of it. I owe help to those I can help because others have helped me. I owe kindness to my fellow man because I have recieved it. While perhaps I don't owe anything to charity I feel obliged to give what I can because someday I may need it in return. I owe many debts of gratitude to people who have made my life as happy and profitable as it is and perhaps I owe some measure of help to make someone elses life better. I owe much to many and give or pay it willingly. I'll be gone in a few years and wont be remembered but I'd like to leave a legacy of forgotten kindness and caring for the fate of all Humanity. I'm a total puss, a softie, a pushover, a fool.

And I'm with you, Greger.

I don't 'owe' humanity anything, yet I have graciously offered my advice - but guess what?
They don't want my advice.

They want my STUFF.

its not about what other people want, its about what you feel/think/believe you owe to humanity.

all this crapology that everything boils down to cost,price and money, everything is commodified.

as ive stated , this thread is about more abstract thoughts.. its about basic principles of your humanity. part of which is what you feel you owe to the rest of it.

I have so much trouble with the term "owe". In a sense, I agree completely with the title of the thread. For me, it's not about owing. It's about something else. Call it responsibility, call it spiritual leading, call it genetic predisposition, whatever you like.

But in any case, it's not about money, and for me, it's not about obligation. We humans have evolved (for the most part) into creatures who make a conscious effort to help and support one another, without preconditions, without expectations, without any sense of quid pro quo.

For every one selfish so-and-so who wouldn't lift a finger to help another human being, there are IMHO dozens who would justify their generosity the way Greger has done, and IMHO hundreds who would choose to be kind simply because it makes them feel good. That, to me, is human nature.

I agree steve, but the word owe came directly from another ranter - whose opinion i would like to see here, expanded a bit.

owe, repsonsibilty, obligation, duty, whatever the term, its the spirit of it im interested in.

on the propagation question,


"I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species... I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply... until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive... is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern: a virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet; you are a plague. And we... are the cure." -- Agent Smith (Hugo Weaving), THE MATRIX (1999)