Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Guns Texan kills burglars next door, citing 'castle doc

WTF it's Texas! The courts would execute them anyway at great expense to the state. This is individual rights which is even better than states rights.

TAT

Texan kills burglars next door, citing 'castle doctrine'

11/16/2007 @ 10:48 am

Filed by David Edwards and Muriel Kane

A so-called "castle doctrine" in Texas allows deadly force to protect their homes.

A Houston man in his 70's killed two “apparent “ burglars he observed in his neighbor's house.

He called a dispatcher when he saw them, saying "I've got a shotgun, do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that," dispatcher. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, ok? ... I've got officers coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

"I understand that, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the 1st, and you know it and I know it." (Seems like everyone in Texas is a lawyer and keeps up on certain laws anyway)

After five minutes he stepped outside and shot both men,

reporting, "Here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going. ...
Boom, you're dead. ...
I had no choice."


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An individual was being deprived of his Property: his Property! the very essence of his individuality! the right that, if denied, makes all other rights irrelevant.

How can an individual stand around and watch such a violation of Property without acting? If another's Property can be violated, so can one's own Property. An act against the rights of one individual is ultimately a lethal attack on every individual's existence.

Justified killing, in the eyes of any right thinking individual.

The problem is that somebody this crazy would probably feel the same way about the neighbors brother in law dropping by and "depriving" him of his vacuum cleaner.

You know how it is, bored and with only a shotgun for company.

But the BIL would never have the chance to explain himself, cause then the great peacekeeper wouldnt have "the drop" on the varmit and lose the element of surprise, and thus actually, finally, having a risk to himself.

But I guess this is just that irrational Quaker blood of mine, raising the redickulous fantasy that something, ANYTHING in Texas could possibly ever be resolved without violence.

I guess its just not sport in Texas unless someone or something gets killed...

TAT

link

Some think Joe Horn when too far
when he shot and killed two men
buglarizing his neighbor's home.




Killed in the incident in the 7400 block of Timberline were Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston.

Each had a minor previous brush with the law. Records show DeJesus was charged with failure to identify himself to a police officer in July 2004. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 20 days in jail. Ortiz was charged with possession of marijuana in July 2005, but it was later dismissed.
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---TAT, perhaps you should listen to the 911 tape.
If there was any vacuum cleaner depriving going on let the record show that the deprivation was taking place through the broken window of the home in question.


Just thought it might be of interest.

This guy is crazy, which you can also tell from listening to the 911 tapes, which i had, where the blood lust in his voice was clearly apparent. This guy is clearly too unstable to handle a gun responsibly.

The burglers were absolutely no threat, and he shot them in cold blood. This person cannot be trusted with any kind of firearm or weapon of any kind.

Now I fully understand that this kind of crazy, does not stand out much above the background in Texas, but in most places this guy would be in jail unless he plead insanity.

If someone like him got a little demented, which could also be hard to detect due to high background, he might not even recognize his neighbor changing his screens, who although he didnt know, he felt it his duty to use deadly force to protect his belongings, that insurance or the cops would have taken care of.

He could also, as the dispatcher was clearly worried, have killed or have been killed by a plain clothed cop on the scene.

I bet it wouldnt have mattered to him one bit had they been 12 as long as their skin was more than suntanned.

TAT

Clearly a member of the "shoot now repent at leisure school".
It also reminds me of Cheney's sporting hunting styles.
Well its OK if he says he is sorry...

TAT

"The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the "deceased" (sounds like they just spontaneously combusted rather than he shot them dead unarmed, reminds me of "mistakes were made")," Horn said in a statement to ABC News.

Still, Horn's attorney insists his client is not an out-of-control vigilante.

"Joe is not a vigilante," said the attorney, Tom Lambright. "He's not a Rambo. He is exactly the opposite of that. He's a nice, loving family man."

But Ortiz's wife, Diamond Morgan, said she believes Horn used excessive force.

"[Horn] said that he feared for his life. But he made the 911 call. And the dispatcher kept telling him don't go outside," she said. "I feel he wanted to shoot them anyway."

Police said a grand jury will determine if what Horn did was illegal.

Meanwhile, he has expressed some regret about what occurred.


link

There's a lot of folks out there who will view this vigilante as a hero. TAT, did you snap that photo before or after the shooting? UGH. Deadly force is an option many people take very seriously, it looks like Mr. Horn just sees it as a opportunity.

I think that photo was before Boss Hogg went to fat after his prime...

I would sure think twice before crawling in through the window in Texas if I forgot my keys. I suppose in Texas you really never need a locksmith as long as you are packing your peacemaker to "unlock" the door. After all guns are just tools.




Somewhat less satisfactory for opening your car door, but some folks just cant seem to remember their keys...



Another danger to society, road signs, have a much longer lifespan in the north...



Dang that one sure looked like a gathering threat to me...

TAT

This case sits very squarely in the middle for me.

One the one hand old Joe is indeed something of a nutcase and demonstrated an eagerness to shoot off his firearm and on the other hand it's quite clear that the two burglars had no business helping themselves to his neighbor's loot, a neighbor with whom he was reportedly very friendly with.

Had he simply called and then sat up in his house and waited, shotgun in hand we probably would only be hearing about the situation now, in a story that detailed how an old timer from Texas excercised his right to defend himself when the two miscreants entered his property.

But Joe Horn chose to let the dispatcher know in no uncertain terms that he was bound and determined to shoot someone that day, and even after being urged to stay inside he decided that he knew his duty when he saw it.

It wasn't too long ago when this was the standard operating procedure, not only in Texas but in a goodly portion of the entire country. I grew up not too far from areas in Maryland where it was well advised to announce yourself and your intentions if you intended to enter someone's homestead property.

If the owner wasn't home it was not out of the ordinary to get challenged by a neighbor, and more often than not that neighbor was armed.

The thing that's missing today is common sense.
Seldom did anything ever happen in the old days because everyone, even those on the wrong side of the law, knew they were taking their life into their hands when they set about to break and enter. Today, roving bands of organized criminals not only expect to go unchallenged, they believe that even if they are, that the odds will be in their favor and the person issuing the challenge won't have anything more potent than a nine volt battery operated help siren from Radio Shack or a cordless phone and the number to government sponsored "dial-a-prayer", aka 911.

Joe was too eager and too intent on delivering a message that could have been delivered with a simple "stand your ground" approach. He says he feared for his life when the two burglars entered his land.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if any witnesses can corroborate his story.

But on the other hand I am sure that the news will be circulating around the streets for quite some time and, right or wrong, I think the message will be quite clear..."stay the $#&^##! away from people's houses unless you have some business being there".

Unfortunately I am convinced that this one incident will be used as cannon fodder for everything from race groups to gun control to the senility lobby for the nursing home industry.

If it gets limited to better background checks for firearm owners we'll be lucky.

JeffH in Occupied TX