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Of course there isn't. He was all about a one-on-one individual relationship with God, wasn't he?:-)


Certainly it was collective -- in a socially communal and voluntary way (at least early on). By the way, let us be careful in jumping from comments concerning Jesus and comments concerning the early church so as to avoid accidental conflation of the two.;-)
Yours,
Issodhos

With all due regard for your expertise, Phil, I am under the impression that churches have a different designation, with similar but not identical restrictions.

I think maybe there is. The Israel of Jesus' day was a theocracy, albeit under occupation by the infidels from Rome, and most of Jesus' followers believed him to be the "King of the Jews", a savior in the very temporal sense of delivering them from Roman rule. When Jesus argued Jewish law with the Pharisees, it was not merely a religious argument, it was the law of the land he was taking issue with. The woman caught in adultery, to give another example, was not being stoned to death by a group of vigilantes, rather her assailants were exercising their legal right to execute the Court's sentence for her crime.

No, he wasn't. Jesus told his followers that no one had a direct path to the Divine. They had to go through him.

Oy Vey.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos

Steve
the things that you say correspond to the understanding of most present day Christians. With all respect, it is not clear that these views correspond to what Jesus taught or what his followers thought while he was alive. For example, you mention the story of the presumed adulteress. It turns out that there is fairly compelling evidence that this wonderful story was added to the bible by later scribes and did not originate with Jesus.

As far as law and politics is concerned, Jesus seemed to share apocalyptic views that the kingdom of god would soon become manifest on this earth. This would happen through god's action rather than any political actions.


It is rather difficult to be entirely sure what Jesus actually said and intended. A few things are, however, certain. We do not have an original copy of the bible. What we have is translations of copies of copies of copes of copies of a collection of material that was written by people who never knew Jesus and who selected what they wrote in order to serve an agenda they "believed" to correspond to Jesus teaching. As far as I am aware, Jesus did not teach the concept of salvation through belief in his own personal divinity. In fact, there was very vigorous debate among early Christians as to this issue.

In considering theology, it is well to remember that many different views of theology have competed and/or held sway over the years. Today alone, one will see considerably different views from Russian orthodox, unitarian, Mormon, Pentecostal, Christian science, etc. And, if one goes back to the early days of the church, disagreements do not disappear. The disagreement within the early church call into question almost all settled theology of today.

It would be comforting to think that the Christian theology that prevails today is inherently true because it has survived. Yet, it seems not entirely coincidental that this theology emerges primarily from Rome... the wealthy and powerful capital of the era's pre-eminent super power.

But this is a far digression from the topic.

Churches vs. Private Nonprofit Organzations or Businesses

Churches are nonprofits under the same section of the Internal Revenue Code (IRS - 501 c 3) as all other charitable organizations, even though a lot people believe churches and nonprofits as separate categories.

The difference is that churches (or other legitimate religious congregations) are exempt from almost all of the filing and reporting requirements that apply to other nonprofits. For example, nonprofits generally must file the Form 1023 with the IRS to seek tax exemption, but churches are automatically exempt without filing, which is why they are not in the IRS records.

Each year, most nonprofits must file the IRS Form 990 annually to report on their programs and finances, in addition to charitable registration forms with the Secretary of State's Offices (requirments vary from state to state) if they raise funds and an independent audit if they raise more than $100,000 per year. "None of these requirements apply to churches."

The underlying reason for this difference is the principle of separation of church and state, which comes out of the First Amendment to the Constitution, even though it is not explicitly stated there.

Some religious leaders are critical of the idea of separation of church and state, I think they better "Be careful what they ask for!" Churches are without a doubt the most free and least regulated institutions in our society.

My hope is that they must file as a "Private Nonprofit Organzation". That means that all churches "must" file a 1023 and an annual 990 form with the IRS. Then these rip-off con artist will find it way more difficult to "misutilize" donations.

Good points, Ardy. Not to wander too far astray, but I would liken the apocalyptic views of Jesus and his early followers to those held by contemporary millenialists, whose influence in politics is at the very least significant. The line between "G*D's action" and "political action", I would suggest, is not well defined in that frame of reference.

Steve, this is from the IRS site:

501(c)(3) exemptions

Good point... although I have never been clear on why one would spend so mouch energy trying to change the world if you believe that the future of the world is entirely fortold in the bible.

Staying

And thus Conservatism. Why attempt the Sisyphean task of changing the world when what was is good and what will be will be?

---You're kidding of course...
Imagine a theocratic Republic of Gilead where 501(C)3 church organizations are granted the ability to modify the tax code to even further suit their wishes, backed by the vote of the "faith-based" Congress.

Put simply, if there is a shotgun wedding of church and state, the BRIDE will be calling the shots my friend.

JeffH in Occupied TX