Capitol Hill Blue Forums Life and Moral Issues Crime & Punishment Illegal Immigration and Appropriate Penalties

Thank you Phil for these two references.

I'm finding out that the America that I thought I knew, isn't. You Ranters are bumming me out.

Honestly, I thought what is currently happening in our country is a new phenomena, but I'm quickly learning it's more of a "history is repeating itself" kinda thing.



Thank you for the real U.S. History lessons Ranters.

Rick - I am always learning lessoms about my country -- some pleasant, some much less so. (For example, I didn't know about firebombing of Tokyo in WWII until last year.)

The lessons are sad but necessary if this country is to improve. There is a lot of anger involved, at least there was for me. The gap between my expectations and reality is sometimes enough to bring tears.

But it's also what makes us want to work until reality meets the ideal.

You have yourself a deal Miss Mellow! I'm with you!

throughout history people have always emigrated to the Imperial centre from its hinterlands.

just beause the US empire isnt, for the most part, directly controlled doesnt mean the same phenomonononona isnt happening.

not dealing with it in a reasonable manner, not thinking through the consequences of words and actions, only stores up trouble for the future.

there was huge immigration to britain from the carribean during the 50's, the integration wasnt handled well and led directly to the brixton riots of the 80s.

You can look at the recent and recurring french riots in a similar way.

It hasnt quite reached that level in the US, but alienation (!) of immigrants leads usualy only down one path. the resultant trouble opens the door for bigoted views and actions.

Classic!!

Isn't that exactly the point of leaving the immigration laws the way they are?

Does anybody remember "poll tests"? Does the analogy resonate?

Isn't that always the way? I mean, think of all the wealthy taxpayers who are similarly annoyed by the poor slobs who suck the government teat rather than doing the hard work that would undoubtedly result in personal success and a contribution to, rather than leeching from, society. Think of all the young, attractive blonde women who avoided prison sentences after being busted for drugs who are similarly annoyed by all the women of color who are getting a free ride due to lengthy sentences . . .

Wait, forget about that second example.

Ahem.

Could you describe to me what "impunity" means? Does it mean, for example, paying your employer $70 a week to live and eat in the back of a van, where the "sanitary facilities" consist of a common corner where all 20 residents defecate? Does it mean working 7 days a week and getting paid 45 cents for picking 32 pounds of tomatoes? Getting physically beaten for taking a sick day? Fined for taking a shower? Just curious why these working conditions common among migrants in the Southeast are conveniently overlooked in order to perpetuate the myth that undocumented immigrants live in the US with "impunity".

Is that true, this is common to migrants in the SE of the U.S.? The employer should be jailed. No wait, fined, then jailed. How do you think Tyson is keeping their employees? I've heard some pretty nasty stories about Tyson and immigrants.

One of the things I know about Tyson is this: at least some of their employees work a 38-hour week -- but instead of being 6 8-hour days, and then a day of rest, they require 5 8-hour days and two 4-hour days.

I have no idea what the economic point of that practice could be; I do know it exhausts the employees and plays hell with any attempt at family or social life.

By the way - the people I know on this shift are legal immigrants, with work permits. Whether Tyson hires illegally I really don't know.

Yes, I've heard some pretty nasty stories about Tyson as well. I've heard that they hire a lot of undocumented immigrants, and have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Familiar term, eh?

As far as the experience of undocumented workers in the Southeast, I can only relate from my own experience what I have been told by two friends who work with migrants in the apple orchards of nearby Henderson County. I have heard that the workers sleep either in tents in the field or in the warehouses, not in the backs of vans, and that they have no sanitary facilities. I have heard that most are undocumented, and their employers (if that is the correct term) claim that they "could not compete" if they had to pay higher wages.