Capitol Hill Blue Forums Life and Moral Issues Crime & Punishment Illegal Immigration and Appropriate Penalties

As you indirectly point out, part of the concept of NAFTA was to likewise encourage a flowering of Mexican Manufacture IE the border maquidoras (sp?). And in fact one of the ideas of the plan was that in agreeing to this arrangement it would lower immigration by creating jobs in Mexico.

Even if one ignores the jobs added in Mexico because of NAFTA, one would still have to explain what Mexico would do with an additional 12 million corn farmers. What sort of living would these farmers make dividing up Mexico's vast farmlands? And what sort of corn price would be required to support these millions? And at what cost to the non-farmers of Mexico?

Assuming a population of 100million Mexicans, and 12 million farmers earning $5,000 each, then each Mexican citizen will pay about $500 per year just for corn. By the way, the $500 per head cost of corn is what it costs for corn from the farm, all processing, handling, packaging, transportation and other costs are extra. To put it in perspective, the wheat farmer may receive 25 cents for the wheat in a loaf of bread. So the actual cost per citizen for corn in Mexico would more likely be of $1500 per capita. Can we be certain that such a circumstance would not cause any immigration to neighboring countries where you could buy the same corn for $100 and make 10x wages.

It's a urban myth that illegal aliens residing in this U.S. make up largely of an agricultural workforce. In actuality, they make up only 5% of the illegal workforce; 20% in the construction trade where there is displacement of American workers. The rest of the industries made of illegal workers are service industries (hotel/motel, restaurant) and production work.

There are three fundamental problems with Mexican construction workers - and it drives both the American boss and the displaced American worker crazy for the same 3 reasons. They routinely show up on time, do really good work, don't complain, work for less, don't steal stuff, take care of the equipment, do really good work, do it for less money, show up, and do really good work for less money.

the bastards

According to a study by the Pew Hispanic Center, published in Dec of 2005, 19% of undocumented workers are in the construction trades, an equal number are in manufacturing trades, 17% are in hospitality trades, and 11% are agricultural workers.

It appears to me that the "urban myth" is that the proportion of agricultural workers among undocumented Hispanic immigrants is relatively insignificant.

Think outside the box a little bit here. Imagine an international trade agreement that, unlike NAFTA, focuses on the needs and rights of the workers and citizens of other countries instead of on the greed and blight of manufacturers. This is the concept of "fair trade" versus "free trade". One would not then have to ignore the 12 million jobs added because of NAFTA. The same 12 million jobs could be added as a result of a fair trade agreement.

Somebody has to pay though, right? Of course. In the "fair trade" model, those with the greatest ability to pay would carry the burden, to the benefit of those with the least. As CA Rick pointed out earlier, in order to attain a real solution, everyone involved will feel some pain. In the case of "fair trade", it would be the multinationals and the American consumer.

11% percent vs 5% - eh, you win some, and you lose some ; but I did get the construction numbers right

Elven percent is really nuthin' at all. That's 1.2 million of 11 million undocumented in the agriculture industry. I could live with that. However when 2.2 million plus began taking jobs from American construction workers and at the same time lowering wages for construction jobs - that's a problem.

Here's the chart that stereman referenced:



I wonder why there is no restaurant category? It seems to me that restaurant work would be way at the top of the list.

In another thread, someone asked how one could tell if a person was "illegal" - I stated language barrier. I've been shown to be correct:



82% of illegal immigrants in the U.S. for less than 6 mos can not speak English.

It's good to know that the longer an illegal alien stays, the more English they begin to speak. That tells me they are willing to assimilate into American society - which I find is a good thing.

Also interesting to note that "most" (59%) illegal aliens coming to the U.S. in the previous six months have less than a high school education.

so if there was a higher standard of education in supply countries.....

one of the best ways to do that is money sent home by immigrants.......

(which also stimulates the home economy and lessens person supply)

Let's take India for example. Third world, high standards of education. What has happened? Their economy is through the roof and workers are traveling there for work.

Yes, a higher standard of education is essential to a country losing it's population.


What this phenomena also shows is that America is fast becoming a "service oriented" society and we are losing our edge in the world market.

Short-sighted employers and lazy kids...erm, educationally challenged youth need to take note.