WE NEED YOUR HELP! Please donate to keep ReaderRant online to serve political discussion and its members. (Blue Ridge Photography pays the bills for RR).
Current Topics
2024 Election Forum
by rporter314 - 05/13/25 01:25 PM
Trump 2.0
by perotista - 04/30/25 08:48 PM
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 5 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Agnostic Politico, Jems, robertjohn, BlackCat13th, ruggedman
6,305 Registered Users
Popular Topics(Views)
10,269,118 my own book page
5,056,319 We shall overcome
4,257,915 Campaign 2016
3,861,704 Trump's Trumpet
3,060,468 3 word story game
Top Posters
pdx rick 47,433
Scoutgal 27,583
Phil Hoskins 21,134
Greger 19,831
Towanda 19,391
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums59
Topics17,129
Posts314,633
Members6,305
Most Online294
Dec 6th, 2017
Today's Birthdays
Bill Cravener
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 8 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,004
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,004
This is the latest news report:

Bhutto report: Musharraf planned to fix elections

The article starts:

The day she was assassinated last Thursday, Benazir Bhutto had planned to reveal new evidence alleging the involvement of Pakistan's intelligence agencies in rigging the country's upcoming elections, an aide said Monday.

Bhutto had been due to meet U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., and Rep. Patrick Kennedy, D-R.I., to hand over a report charging that the military Inter-Services Intelligence agency was planning to fix the polls in the favor of President Pervez Musharraf.

Safraz Khan Lashari, a member of the Pakistan People's Party election monitoring unit, said the report was "very sensitive" and that the party wanted to initially share it with trusted American politicians rather than the Bush administration, which is seen here as strongly backing Musharraf.

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 919
D
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
D
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 919
This murder follows a previous attempt on her life in October, 2007. On November 2, 2007, David Frost interviewed Bhutto about the attempt on her life. During this interview, Bhutto referred to one of the possible assassins as the man who killed Osama Bin Laden.

Frost just continued with the interview. No mention of this in the MSM. What is going on?

Here's the interview: The name of the man who murdered OBL revealed


Critical thinking - our other national deficit.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 754
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 754
A new assassination video. Link provided by Justin Raimondo at AntiWar dot com:

Quote
Contrary to what I say in this morning’s column, it looks increasingly likely that the assassination of Benazir Bhutto is the work, not of Al Qaeda, but of elements within the Pakistani government itself. Not necessarily Gen. Pervez Musharraf, but of a faction within the military that is, perhaps, getting ready to dump Musharraf and assume power directly.

Justin Raimondo, "Pakistan: Worse Than I Thought", AntiWar dot com blog, December 31st, 2007

One of the main reasons I like Raimondo is that he will admit his own errors, and call it as he sees it, no matter which way the chips fall.

This is tempered a bit by

CNN News' Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees on January 1, 2008

Starting about 2/3 of the way down the page. Search for the string: Tonight Pakistan remains, for the entry. Peter Bergen is one I've found can generally be trusted.

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Bergen can usually be trusted? I wouldn't trust what he had to say in that report.

Red flag:
Quote
But the fact is, until and if there is an autopsy, which I think is quite unlikely, given the fact that the Bhutto family has said they're against one, we may never know the exact cause of death.
Here he is not relating fact, but mixing together fact and fiction, without telling the viewer which is which.
  • FACT: Bhutto's husband opposed the exhuming of the body and performance of an autopsy.
  • FICTION: It was up to him to decide.
And, to make it more interesting:
  • FURTHER OMISSION: He opposed the exhuming of the body by Musharraf's henchmen (by that I mean the Police). He might not oppose the exhuming of the body by, say Scotland yard, who has offered to take over the investigation. As Senator Clinton suggested someone should.

    Bergen continues telling whoppers:
    Quote
    COOPER:Even if these allegations [that Musharraf was going to rig the election] are true, there's no evidence, really, that that report had anything to do with her killing, correct?

    BERGEN: I don't think so, Anderson. I mean, if we accept the premise, which I think is a fair one, that al Qaeda and the Taliban were the authors of this assassination, they don't believe in elections of any kind, anywhere in the world, let alone in Pakistan.

    So they would have no motive to kill her just because she was going to hand a dossier over to Senator Specter and Representative Kennedy, as is the theory that's circulating right now in Pakistan, Anderson.
    Only that vaste hoardes of clueless rubes that populate the middle part of this great continent would fall for a line like that. Everywhere else in the world, people would scratch their heads and say "wait a minute, if you're trying to determine the guilty party by examining motives, you don't start out assuming you know who is guilty and then dismiss the motives that don't apply."

    One more hit, and then I'll stop picking on Bergen.
    Quote
    BERGEN: Clearly, if the election had been held on January 8, it would have been hugely in favor of Benazir Bhutto, who was already, by the way, the most popular politician in Pakistan, scoring a 63 percent popularity rating weeks ago.
    So far Bergen has identified two motives for Musharraf to kill her, and no motives for al Qaeda or the Taliban to kill her. But we know who's guilty.

    We know, don't we Peter. [nudge nudge wink wink]


Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 754
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 754
Try these from The Pakistan Daily Times, a moderate Pakistani paper that is no friend of Musharraf:
No matter how it gets sliced and diced, one fact remains: Benazir Bhutto should bear a great deal of the blame for her own death. She stuck her head out of an armoured Lexus SUV's sunroof, presenting herself as a target in heavy traffic. Everyone inside of the vehicle survived the suicide detonation.


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433
Likes: 373
Benazir Bhutto was the newest puppet that the United States wanted running Pakistan after their current one dared to defy the Bush Administration.

Benazir Bhutto was no mother Teresa either:

Bhutto helped create Taliban monster



Contrarian, extraordinaire


Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
No Mother Theresa indeed, Rick. But what Mother Theresa would ever rise to the position that she did? Important I think to note, from your cited article, who was the motive force and who the compliant in the creation of the "Taliban monster":
Quote
The Taliban was a gamble she took, cunningly if not without considerable trepidation – and certainly at the behest of a powerful intelligence service, the ISI, she feared but had to accommodate . . .
Originally Posted by a knight
Benazir Bhutto should bear a great deal of the blame for her own death.
No. She was killed by an assassin, not an opportunist. It may have been foolhardy for her to expose herself in that way, and she might be alive today had she not done so, but she was not killed by a stray bullet or by shrapnel, as the videos show. She was killed by a cold-blooded murderer. If not then, it would have happened another time. Indeed, it was intended to have happened in October, when she had just returned. This was the second attempt. There would have been a twentieth, if necessary.

She chose to die on her feet rather than to live on her knees.


Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Now turning to the two articles from the Pakistan Times, one can see what a danger there is in using the term "al Qaeda" to conflate all of the denizens of the tribal badlands generally known as Waziristan.

The first article, far from a "news analysis", is an opinion piece, full of unsubstantiated claims intended to lead to the same preconceived notion that "whoever was responsible, it wasn't Musharraf". An example of writer Najam Sethi's twisted logic is the convolution that Musharraf couldn't have been involved in this assassination because someone once tried to assassinate Musharraf himself. Prefacing this ludicrous claim is the equally ludicrous conclusion:
Quote
But if the “agencies” have done this at President Musharraf’s bidding, why is no one asking about their motives for doing so, or whether this suits him in any way, considering that it is likely to provoke a popular movement to undo his regime?
The writer is depending on the ignorance of the readers, hoping they do not know that the popular movement had already been provoked, and that at the time of her assassination, her popularity was twice that of the incumbent General President. As I pointed out in my previous post, there are at least two identifiable motives for Musharraf: Bhutto's immense popularity, and her potential ability to expose the Musharraf regime as a principal supporter of al Qaeda in Pakistan.

This essay places the blame for her killing on Baitullah Mehsud, whom they refer to as "an al-Qaeda Taliban Warlord". Mehsud has since denied any involvement whatsoever in the assassination. Years of experience with al Qaeda terrorism should have taught us that they are proud to claim responsibility for any and all terrorist acts they perpetrate. Indeed, as the second article points out, they already have:
Quote
Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility for the assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto . . . “We terminated the most precious American asset which vowed to defeat (the) mujahadeen,” AKI quoted Al Qaeda commander and main spokesman Mustafa Abu Al Yazid as saying. According to AKI, Al Yazid is the main Al Qaeda commander in Afghanistan.
The danger of conflation. If you believe, as Najam Sethi seems to, that the ultimate goal of the mujahideen in the Waziristan region of Pakistan is to "destabilize Pakistan and sow the seeds of anarchy", it may be difficult to look at any other evidence in the matter. On the other hand, if you believe that their goal is to expel foreign occupiers from the region and to ensure their autonomy, then the recent history of the region makes a great deal more sense.


Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Bump.

Police witness: mysterious crowd suddenly stopped Bhutto vehicle
Quote
The witness was Ishtiaq Hussain Shah [deputy police superintendent] of the Rawalpindi police. As Bhutto's car headed onto Rawalpindi's Liaquat Road after an election rally Dec. 27, a crowd appeared from nowhere and stopped the motorcade, shouting slogans of her Pakistan Peoples Party and waving party banners, according to his account.

Bhutto, apparently thinking she was greeting her supporters, emerged through the sunroof of the bulletproof car to wave.

<SNIP>

Who organized the crowd is only one of the mysteries two weeks after the assassination. "I don't know who they were or from where they came," the Rawalpindi officer told Dawn newspaper. "They just appeared on the road."

<SNIP>

Another mystery of the case is why so valuable a report has been buried. Among its other conclusions: Bhutto's assassin, after shooting her, detonated his own suicide belt. No ambulance was called, and it took 25 minutes to get her to the hospital, only two miles from the scene.


Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433
Likes: 373
Member
CHB-OG
Offline
Member
CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,433
Likes: 373
Quote
Another mystery of the case is why so valuable a report has been buried. Among its other conclusions: Bhutto's assassin, after shooting her, detonated his own suicide belt. No ambulance was called, and it took 25 minutes to get her to the hospital, only two miles from the scene.
No ambulance was called? This reminds me of when Ronald Regan was shot and the Secret Service driver who worked the city on a regular bases, "got lost."

(A little side story regarding my post if you wish to read it).


Contrarian, extraordinaire


Page 8 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5