Originally Posted by Schlack
Originally Posted by issodhos
Those would be state/societal granted privileges which could just as easily be recinded when useful to the state to do so.

I see, so lets say Ireland, the people in 1937 voted on a new consitution which defined the rights, - so the people were agreeing what rights the people of ireland should have.

it was in some ways an insane document, but thankfully it has been changed many times over the years - by referendum. the people directly choose what rights are, what rights the courts uphold, what boundaries legislation can have.

as society changes those rights change. were still in the process of re-defining rights of the unborn. under the original 37 doc they hold the right to life, but protection of that right infringes upon the rights of women to travel (preventing them going to England go for abortions).

so I would have to come down on the side that even the right to life is a defined one.

now you can rant on about "the state" all you want, but "the state" and successive governments doesnt want to touch this issue with a barge poll.

as i said when situations change so do rights, and when they have been taken away from people, or people believe they should have different rights than they currently do, they agitate for them.

isnt this part and parcel of revolutions....

no taxation without representation.

The mere fact that Ireland has not yet gotten it right is immaterial, Schlack. The people of Ireland could just as easily agree that they should have the right to one free Guiness per pub visit and put it down in writing in a Constitution. It remains a privilege granted by themselves to themselves through the misuse of government -- not a right.

If you do not think that there are natural rights that adhere to man by dint of being human, then you have no foundation for claiming that the rights of others in other societies (or cultures within your own Irish society) are being violated. After all, each society is simply engaging in temporary agreement as to how the state and how the mob is willing to treat individuals who may be out of (goose)step with the normative mass.;-)
Yours,
Issodhos


"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos