Capitol Hill Blue Forums Hot Topics & Breaking News News Oil hits a high; some in U.S. see $4 gas by spring

---I want you folks to remember that all new technology remains expensive and out of reach, but most of all impractical and nonmarketable until several benchmarks are cleared, to wit the electric car.

1) Able to go 75 mph easily on the freeway
2) Looks and acts like a standard car for the most part
3) Travels at least 100 miles on a charge
4) Doesn't take an inordinate amount of time to recharge

The recent excitement about GM's Chevy Volt needs to be tempered with some reality. GM engineers keep claiming that they "don't have the battery situation worked out because they're not good enough".
This is codespeak for "we don't have total control over the battery vendors". The batteries are beyond "good enough" and the electric car has now passed all of the above benchmarks.

Theoretically the electric car is where the first computer DVD burners were in the mid-1990's. They work great but they're ridiculously expensive. For those who don't remember, the first
computer DVD burners were five thousand dollars each.
Ten years later they almost give them away if you buy enough blank DVD's.

So let gasoline hit twenty bucks a gallon.
All we have to do is get through the next two to three years, which admittedly will be hell.

And then there's HHO.

JeffH in Occupied TX

Jeff, what do you actually *know* about HHO use in vehicles (aka 'Brown's Gas' - although it would more accurately be described as "2H2+O2")?

For those who are not aware, 'Brown's Gas' is simply the stoichiometric mixture of hydrogen gas and oxygen gas resulting from local electrolysis of water... it's known advantage in welding is to be able to use electricity to produce the gases from water electrolysis to produce a flame at the welding tip (from the burning gas as it recombines to water) without tanks. (And, I would imagine, also has the advantage of not requiring an electric arc and a sacrificial metal rod)

What I've run into recently is the claim that using electricity from the car alternator/battery system to convert water into "HHO" can, upon introduction into the engine's combustion chamber, cause the gasoline (or even diesel) fuel to burn more efficiently. I know that *is* the case with both water and alcohol injection, and although I know that at its core it is a zero sum equation (the energy generated from the recombination of 2xH2 + O2 to 2xH2O can not be any greater than the energy extracted from the engine through the charging system to create the HHO gas), I can imagine that it *could* have some catalysing effect on the burning fuel - but I question the claim that the system can achieve +30% gas mileage while consuming only one quart of water every month or so.

Does anyone have any *direct* experience of this?

Los Angeles Times

Gas this morning that I bought at Mobil in Phoenix was $3.39.

I know this is going to piss some off...but I think they should tax SUV and those freaking hummers more. I know some people have a legtimate use for a SUV my parents haul horses and they need a big truck. Here in S. Flordia though it's an accessory not a neccesity and damn it why should I have to suffer at the pump because some jackass has to show off to his neighbors by driving a hummer to tool around town with.

Yes the irony of freedom isn't lost on me...but I'm tired of having a big piece of SUV crap wasting gas because they have to appease some sense of self by driving that particular vechile.

Dig this, in Phoenix they are talking about converting the HOV lanes to toll lanes. That way only people who can afford it can drive their finite resource consuming vehicles to get to work faster and more conveniently than people who purchased high mpg and hybrid vehicles. They hybrid and motorcycle drivers will be thrown into daily commuter fray with everyone else, unless they cough up extra bucks.

In other words, the proposed system will give the finger to the environmental and resource conscious and will welcome those who are more able to afford privilege. It may help you to know that the Arizona legislature is Republican.

Which is something you have always been loath to do.

I resemble that remark

---From what the Aquygen guy says, using radio frequency energy
(at the correct freq of course) is more efficient than simple electric current. The Aquygen device is already in general use in the welding business and prices are already starting to come down, with their base model going for about six thousand dollars.
This represents a pretty good cost savings for traditional acetylene people, with payoff in as little as nine months.

A vehicular system has to do more with less, specifically electric. Retrofit kits for autos require a high output alternator among other things. It indeed does require a significant amount of power to generate the gas, and as yet it is still only an adjunct to gas/diesel and not a replacement.

But with a 40 to 50 percent increase in mileage that's a pretty good adjunct.

Busy today but I'll dig up the links and post when I can.

JeffH in Occupied TX

Thanks, Jeff. I am a skeptic, but I am an open-minded skeptic. You wouldn't think that injecting plain ol' water into the combustion chamber would increase power, but it can (if done right).