Capitol Hill Blue Forums Life and Moral Issues Education US Schools -- a failed system?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but when I was in high school I used to work in a movie theater. More specifically, I used to work Saturday matinees.

In addition, I occasionally have to go into BigDiscountMartStore to pick up stuff for my father, where I see large chunks of AmericanMiddles.

I think if you take the average Saturday gang of WalBoxStore customers, and put them completely in charge of the education of those matinee attendees, you're going to regret it.


Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there ARE better ways to educate people than we have in place at PS 39. But to do it in anything remotely resembling an affordable manner? Our society can barely scramble up one parent per child; one parent/earner/teacher is pushing it.

If there are better ways to educate large numbers of children I"m all for hearing it, but so far I think I'm only hearing solutions that affect a few children at a time, done by parents who have the resources to have a parent heavily involved in education. I'm interested in what happens to the rest - those who will be sorting my medications, cooking my food, investing my money, etc. as I age.

A self-taught genius is fine when what we need is, say, an Emerson or a Franklin. But when I'm looking for a surgeon, or the architect and builder of a 10-story building, self-taught doesn't really do it for me.

So, if the current system sucks - and in many places I believe it does - then give me an idea for something better that will work for the general population.

From your wiki link
You have not shown which parts were copied. Was it this part?

One can understand why the king of Prussia might have such a goal. It is less clear why Horace Mann would have that goal.

Further, you would need to show that Horace Mann's successors on various school boards also retained the same goal as the Prussian system.

You see, it could be the case that the Prussian system was the only extant system of compulsory education and what we emulated was the over all goal of universal general education along with a general structure for accomplishing this aim.

Texas schools, for all practical purposes, are giant day care centers for children. The system is a joke.

Texas children are taught to pass a very specific test that is mandated by the Legislation. They've cut out music, art, and other creative classes. If George Bush had had his way while serving as Governor, he would have shutdown all of the science classes.

If a child can't pass the state required academic test...no biggie. They are socially passed from grade to grade. Texas has an insane number of children who can't read. Dropout rates are incredible.

The long-term social cost is going to be enormous. It is sad, it's a tragedy, and those responsible needs to be legally prosecuted for dumbing down our children.

OK, Gregg, problem identified. What would you do about ?

2WINS...

I'll give you an answer, but it will take me a little time to articulate the solutions as I deem them to "possibly" be. It's a complicated issue that will require complex efforts via Federal, State, and more importantly...local district teachers and administrators being a pro-active part of the solutions.

When a state (over many years) is repeatedly found to be in the 47th, 48th, or 49th place in academic performance...you can imagine just how convoluted the situation is.

Legislators have systematically removed teacher's imput, recommendations, and options for reforming Texas schools.

I'll probably have to just open a Word Document,contemplate and write a summary of how I perceive various issues and their possible solutions. I just can't sit here in CHB and respond to this.

IIRC, when William Bennett was the "education czar" some years ago and pointed out the appalling condition of our school system, he said something like '...if a another nation were to try and force upon us the system of public education that we have ourselves adopted, it would be a cause for war!'

My own thought(s) on "public education" is that it is really neither public nor is it education. I hold that it is not really public but is rather the private preserve of a class of state-empowered control-freaks who have found a way to escape any significant civic audit, to loot the public treasury and to legally kidnap our children and hold them that way for up to a dozen years while conducting a series of experiments in social conditioning. I hold that it is no longer really education but about encouraging people to think of themselves only in terms of membership in a particular grievance-bearing group and to believe in some sense of entitlement to never be offended and never be held responsible for anything.

I say this as someone who (1) is a product of a public school system, but one that was considerably different than the current system, and who (2) raised a child in that system and to some degree experienced how it had morphed into its current miserable state.

I know quite a few public school teachers and administrators. My daughter is a teacher. I resent the statements being made here and elsewhere denigrating them. They are true heroes, serving the children of this nation at great personal sacrifice and with more dedication than most of us here can muster in a lifetime of bitching on the internet.

Schools are imperfect and some teachers are not very good. But they do not, so far as all I know, have any agenda to enslave children nor make them tools of anyone. They suffer from overblown expectations, under funded budgets and an abysmal lack of parental contribution to their own children's education, much less that of non-parents.

The blame rests with those who complain and do nothing practical. Stop the bitching and go volunteer for teacher's aide or some other real contribution.

I know a quite a few as well, Phil, and I despise most of them. I have to snicker a bit at the attempt made to declare as automatically heroic all members of an employee population that seems to be largely composed of driven mediocrities.

When I taught calculus and BASIC programming (mentioned in the other thread, so I'll not repeat it here), I had the respect of the department head and one or two of the other mathematics department staff - but I earned the ire of most of the others. They hated the fact that someone without a single phuqing credit in "education" was able to step in and take over and teach successfully - according to the department head and the students - an introductory course that none of them, despite years of additional service training and even advanced degrees in their field, was able to do.

They - and I mean other teachers in other departments - also resented the existence of the honors/AP program(s) because, in the words of one middle-aged English teacher, "you get the cream of the crop and we have to put up with the s*** that's left!" Now, does that sound like a "hero" to you? I realize that my experience was possibly an exception, but I still find it illuminating.

Yes, there are good teachers, and most of us have had the blessing of having been exposed to one or two in our lives. But they are the exception. Far too many are merely disgruntled time-servers waiting until the magic number of age and years of service allows them to retire.

The teachers themselves are not responsible - invoking the old Nuremberg defense, of following orders - for enslaving the minds directly, they are simply carrying out the instructions from a state-run educational bureaucracy that takes its cues largely from what ever is currently de rigueur in the current theory of education and instructional psychology.

Phil,

If you notice my last posting...I've certainly made it clear that a very big part of Texas' education problems stem from our Legislation's systematic removal of teacher's playing a significant role in reform. They are the key to better education. Teachers in Texas are as much a victim as the children.

An additional thought, Phil, from one of the bitchers.

I am an adjunct instructor in chemistry at a small community college in South Texas, currently completing my 16th consecutive semester at that task, and I get to see the defective product of the educational factory. I get both kids and older students who think that an answer must be correct because that's what the hand-held calculator barfed out when they screwed around with it. I see crappy spelling and atrocious grammar. I see the lack of ability to reason their way through even simple problems.

Now these are graduates of accredited high schools, many have and/or come from stable home environments, many hold decent jobs in the world and work hard to support themselves and their families; they are not stupid and they are not lazy, except for a couple of each type per class. The average age is 28; 75% of them are women; two-thirds of them are of Mexican derivation.

Who should I blame for their lack of preparation? Texas, because it isn't a "blue" state where everyone is progressive, has one percent body-fat and speaks three foreign languages? Their cultural background? Their parents? They themselves for not pushing themselves harder?

The thing in common is that they all went to the same public school system(s) operated by the same "educators" and bureaucrats.