there is one thing i would like to add to ron's last post. as an editor i have taken on college students as freelancers and interns. with two exceptions i have been blown away at their lack of basic grammar and punctuation skills. now what makes this especially problematic is that they are either english, creative writing or journalism majors. one of them, a senior at the time, required constant editing and could not grapple with the fundamentals whatsoever. she graduated with a ba and went on to apply for graduate school, asking me for a recommendation. i did not offer one. somehow, she was accepted into a program, regent university i believe, pat robertson's virginia beach university. i just shake my head. for my part, i will go on record saying i was an abysmal high school student who didn't give a rats arse. i didn't excel until i began to take higher education seriously, in my early twenties. i have had a knack, if you will, for writing and the english language in general. additionally, partly as a result of what i see happening with education these days - regardless of where the blame rests - we have our oldest studying latin. now, why do we do this? simply because i can point three major languages influenced by latin that she will likely study at university, including english. i only point this out because we have stripped latin from the schools to make way for things like compulsory reading enhancement programs that do nothing but drill and practice. as phil pointed out to me elsewhere, the parents have a role here and will say that those who influence their children will see greater progress from their children as where those who do not, well, you can figure that out. to simply blame the schools is not correct. that in my opinion establishes a victim culture, making poor stupid joe schmoe parent the victim etc., and, well, people are smarter than all that. no the blame rests with all of us, even you ron, as an educator, for not taking part in the solution. frankly, to sit back and criticize while declaring your libertarian or whatever view you have isn't helping any. as a teacher i am sure you are doing something at your level, but what have you contributed to the problem we are discussing? me? i have battled with the public schools over various issues for years. and while i admit there are some public schools i would not mind my daughters attending, i am tired of the battle and find that home schooling is far more creative and conducive to a creative, liberal - see the latin - education than we find where we curerntly reside..