Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Finance, the economy & Economics Reducing the cost of Oil

Obama is right but the collective indignent cries coming from the White House oil buddies will drown out any serious talk about the subject.

I'd like to think that Americans will finally learn their lesson and take conservation seriously. However given the desire for a nanosecond fix they will just make it worse. The polls show that Americans are ready to hand over our land and seas to the very same peopl who are raping our country and us now. It would seem Americans ability of looking to the future and seeing the big picture has vanished along with any real desire to come up with a solution. Quick fix is all they look for and to hell with the consequences, let someone else worrying about that. Yes it hurts, I'm hurting but if we don't address these issues now with some kind of thought we will just end up sealing our fate to be controlled forever by the corporations.

My god I'm starting to sound like that Belzer on Law and order SVU

learn our lesson?

LOL exactly

Europe got it, but then again they have been paying these prices for sometime. There is a reason though that smart cars are so poupular. Us on the other hand...decide the hummer was a practical everyday ride.

Red,
I've got a very good friend (who I met on the internet some 5 years ago! ) who is British and lives in a resort area in England. Her husband owns a garage and repairs all kinds of fancy and expensive vehicles.
He got his first Hummer (to repair) a year ago (or so). LOL, she sent me photos. She was over the moon fascinated by it.
She has visited me 4 times and just can't get over how LARGE our vehicles are here.
She says the high taxes on gas encourage them not to drive and the money is used on environmental projects.
She herself has a cute little sports car. Oh she adores her car!

Just too brilliant for us though, huh??

---For the love of GOD if those are the only two limiting factors then it's safe to say the electric car is ready for the market.
How many people bought BetaMax VCR's when the limiting factor was a one hour recording time and a 3500 dollar price tag...IN 1973??

Apparently quite a few, because Sony quickly ramped up production of the two hour Beta II machine at a reduced price WITHIN A YEAR.

I say forty mile electric only capacity is sufficient to satisfy the needs of 80 percent of the workaday commuters in this country, and the tiny 1 liter engine needed to charge the system while en route will combine for a composite MPG of nearly 120, which you can almost DOUBLE if the engine is a diesel.

How much better does it need to get, or are we really flogging ourselves with the scare tactics of the MSM?
I guess we're so well trained and conditioned that we automatically repeat the garbage spewing out the tube without even being prompted now.

Batteries are expensive:
Everything's expensive when it first hits the market.

Range is limited:
It's sufficient now and will only get better.

JeffH in Occupied TX

Fair enough
The question then remains why people are not buying these cars?

It's just price and availability right now.
For the electric car, it's the first day, very few models rolling out the factory doors, and most models promised for rollout within the next twelve months.
GM's Chevy Volt has received a commitment for a 2010 rollout by GM CEO Bob Lutz, who calls the plucky little coupe their "moon shot".

The Volt is expected to cost what an average upper middle class minivan costs, around 25 to 30 thousand.

The Tesla Roadster, handmade to order, and with a near 100 thousand dollar price tag, is available now if you take a number and get in line.
But the reason it costs as much as it does is threefold:

Performance: zero to sixty in three seconds
Looks: It would make a Lamborghini slit its wrists
Range: 250 miles on all electric

Take away any TWO of the above and you'd probably see a price tag closer to the Volt.

There are several other models scheduled for a release in the next year, with more down to earth sticker price and somewhat less than earthshattering specs, but just remember that if it can
get around fifty miles on battery alone, get on the freeway without getting rear-ended and costs about the same as a regular car it's going to be a success as long as the electrical system is reliable.

The Japanese carmakers have already decided that they're committed to getting an electric to market, but GM seems to be alone on the American side for now, making their campaign more and more like a real "space race".
If we're first, it means a lot for America.

Of course it will also mean a lot if the cars actually perform as promised...the Chevy Volt has been in testing stages for well over four years now.

Really good batteries (NiMH) are possible for electric cars, but there is a little problem: Chevron owns a controlling interest in Cobasys, the company that holds the patents on NiMH batteries. You can read about this here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_metal_hydride_battery

Look at the section on Patent Encumbrance. Cobasys "is not interested" in small production runs, so it is impossible for small companies (much less enthusiasts) to get large format NiMH batteries. They are starting to make batteries for GM. But of course, some think their parent company bought the controlling interest to slow any switchover away from petroleum fuels.

This makes John McCain's big prize for a super battery rather silly: A good enough battery already exists! But almost all of the home-built electric cars use old-style lead acid batteries because the biggest NiMH battery you can buy retail is an AA cell. Thanks Chevron!

I think the Tesla uses lithium ion batteries that cost much more, hold more power, and are much trickier to manage in terms of charge and discharge without exploding!

Hi C.S.!


There is a "third" "limiting factor"-

"Folks" are STILL PAYING for THOSE "Consumer WANTS".

"Trade-in"?

--Lithium battery technology has already surmounted the heat and fire issue in several different ways, among them Lithium Ferrite Phosphate.

The only tricks to managing a Li-Ion battery is that the batteries must be "balanced" before charging as a complete unit.
This is an installation issue and not a regular daily situation.
The only other trait that is noticeable is that a Li-Ion battery MUST NOT be discharged below a certain voltage if you want to maintain good battery life.

This is easily dealt with by smart circuitry that sets a specific cutoff voltage.

Lithium will continue to follow typical market trends until the market for automotive applications makes them cheaper.

So as I said, if this is the worst case scenario, the electric car is poised pretty well and can only get better.