Originally Posted by Harv3
But counselor, where the "presumption of innocence"? wink
I will not be serving on Karl Rove's jury, so no presumption is required. I would, however, gladly serve on the prosecution team. The presumption of innocence, my friend, only applies to the jury. Prior to that, it is necessary for the prosecution and associated systems to sort through the evidence with a dispassionate, open-minded view to determine whether probable cause exists to believe that a crime occurred. Then, of course, one can secure an indictment, move forward to trial, and eventually obtain a conviction.

Unfortunately, it is not true that one has to have been convicted to obtain a pardon. I can think of two infamous cases, not dissimilar from the current situation, where pardons were granted prior to conviction in order to cover up malfeasance and protect other co-conspirators. Caspar Weinberger was pardoned by George Bush I in order to prevent his having to testify about the President's involvement in the Iran-Contra conspiracy.
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Following his resignation as Secretary of Defense, legal proceedings against Weinberger were brought by Independent Counsel Lawrence E. Walsh. A federal grand jury indicted Weinberger for several felony counts of lying to the Iran-Contra independent counsel during its investigation. Weinberger received a Presidential pardon from outgoing President George H.W. Bush on December 24, 1992.
Wikipedia
But that wasn't the whole of it:
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Oliver North and John Poindexter were indicted on multiple charges on March 16, 1988.[54] North, indicted on 16 counts, was found guilty by a jury of three minor counts. The convictions were vacated on appeal on the grounds that North's Fifth Amendment rights may have been violated by the indirect use of his testimony to Congress which had been given under a grant of immunity. In 1990, Poindexter was convicted on several felony counts of conspiracy, lying to Congress, obstruction of justice, and altering and destroying documents pertinent to the investigation. His convictions were also overturned on appeal on similar grounds. Arthur L. Liman served as chief counsel for the Senate during the Iran-Contra Affair.[55]

The Independent Counsel, Lawrence E. Walsh, chose not to re-try North or Poindexter. Caspar Weinberger was indicted for lying to the Independent Counsel but was later pardoned by President George H. W. Bush.[56]

In 1992 George H. W. Bush pardoned six convicted administration officials, namely Elliott Abrams, Duane R. Clarridge, Alan Fiers, Clair George, Robert McFarlane, and Caspar Weinberger.[57]

George W. Bush selected some individuals that served under Reagan for high-level posts in his presidential administration.[58][59] They include:

* Elliott Abrams:[60] under Bush, the Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director on the National Security Council for Near East and North African Affairs; in Iran-Contra, pleaded guilty on two counts of unlawfully withholding information, pardoned.

* Otto Reich:[61] head of the Office of Public Diplomacy under Reagan.

* John Negroponte:[62] under Bush, served as the Ambassador to Iraq, the National Intelligence Director, and the Deputy Secretary of State.

* Admiral John Poindexter:[63] under Bush, Director of the Information Awareness Office; in Iran-Contra, found guilty of multiple felony counts for conspiracy, obstruction of justice, lying to Congress, defrauding the government, and the alteration and destruction of evidence, convictions reversed.
So, convicted of conspiracy, pardon by dad, hired by son. Hmmm... anyone see a pattern?

Oh, and the other infamous pre-conviction pardon? Gerald Ford's pardon of Nixon: Proclamation 4311
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As a result of certain acts or omissions occurring before his resignation from the Office of President, Richard Nixon has become liable to possible indictment and trial for offenses against the United States. Whether or not he shall be so prosecuted depends on findings of the appropriate grand jury and on the discretion of the authorized prosecutor. Should an indictment ensue, the accused shall then be entitled to a fair trial by an impartial jury, as guaranteed to every individual by the Constitution.
....
NOW, THEREFORE, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution[*], have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.

[*]"he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."

Last edited by NW Ponderer; 07/11/08 01:54 PM. Reason: additional comment
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich