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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Aug 2008
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OP
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With the anticipated takeover of AIG in exchange for a mere $65 billion, the government is becoming a major owner of financial market entities.
What are the implications of this? The government has expropriated worthless banks and, in the end, trillions of dollars of debt. What a triumph of socialism! Karl Marx never foresaw this! Marx must be spinning in his grave. _____________
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
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The Bush administration sketched out a multi-faceted effort on Friday to confront the worst U.S. financial crisis in decades, outlining a program that could cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars to buy up bad mortgages and other toxic debt that has unhinged Wall Street.
President Bush, flanked by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, acknowledged that the program will put a "significant amount of taxpayers' money on the line."
The administration is asking Congress to give it sweeping new powers to execute the plan. Paulson said it "needs to be big enough to make a real difference and get to the heart of the problem." So now that the socialization of the economy is taking on massive proportions, at what point if any will anyone take a critical look at this? Neither McCain nor Obama seem willing to offer any leadership, Congress seems willing to do anything asked of it, and for the most part major decisions about the direction of our nation are being taken by non-elected officials. This proposal for the government to take over all the bad debts just seems crazy to me. It is likely to 1) end up adding trillions of dollars to the national debt; and 2) offer no incentive to private entities to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. Just crazy.
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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1) end up adding trillions of dollars to the national debt; and Is it not the role of a government to stabilize the economy of the country? What benefit do the people of USA have from a prolonged recession? 2) offer no incentive to private entities to avoid making the same mistakes in the future.
Just crazy. And if those big boys making the millions are taught a lesson, how does that benefit the people losing their homes, losing their retierment money, losing their jobs. Please explain that to me. Yes, the past 30 years of deregulation in the US financial markets have brought this on and Democrats and Republicans have plenty of blame to share for that. What is done is done. Now it's time to get the economy back on it's feet and part of any country's economy has been government spending. How does it affect your daily life if the US national debt is 12 trillion instead of 10 trillion? It doesn't. Is your daily life affected if you don't have a job and you're about to lose your home? I bet it does.
A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials. ~Chinese Proverb
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ~Jon Hammond
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,245 Likes: 33
old hand
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old hand
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So now that the socialization of the economy is taking on massive proportions Actually Phil, it’s loss risk that is being socialized. The potential for realized gains are still safely privatized. It’s a great country ain’t it?
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2004
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Here's the part that scares me: The administration is asking Congress to give it sweeping new powers to execute the plan. Giving this Administration "sweeping new powers" is like giving Jeffrey Dahmer a new set of carving knives.
Steve Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.
(Native American prayer)
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134 |
1) end up adding trillions of dollars to the national debt; and Is it not the role of a government to stabilize the economy of the country? What benefit do the people of USA have from a prolonged recession? 2) offer no incentive to private entities to avoid making the same mistakes in the future.
Just crazy. And if those big boys making the millions are taught a lesson, how does that benefit the people losing their homes, losing their retierment money, losing their jobs. Please explain that to me. Yes, the past 30 years of deregulation in the US financial markets have brought this on and Democrats and Republicans have plenty of blame to share for that. What is done is done. Now it's time to get the economy back on it's feet and part of any country's economy has been government spending. How does it affect your daily life if the US national debt is 12 trillion instead of 10 trillion? It doesn't. Is your daily life affected if you don't have a job and you're about to lose your home? I bet it does. Kap17, there is logic to your point, I agree. But that is yet another short term solution to a problem that I and some others contend is a systemic weakness. It is a ponzi scheme that has no "there" there. Yes addint a few trillion to the national debt seems like a "so what" proposition. But if you think further, that debt has to be underwritten by someone. It requires some entity to actually pony up the money to cover the debt. We appear to be close to having run out of such savior entities. Some day it will end and then what? Further, as is pointed out, why should we underwrite the debt but the profit goes to the investors? I did not take on debt because I felt it imprudent. Why should I pay for your debts?
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,026
member
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Kap17, there is logic to your point, I agree. But that is yet another short term solution to a problem that I and some others contend is a systemic weakness. It is a ponzi scheme that has no "there" there.
Yes addint a few trillion to the national debt seems like a "so what" proposition. But if you think further, that debt has to be underwritten by someone. It requires some entity to actually pony up the money to cover the debt.
We appear to be close to having run out of such savior entities. Some day it will end and then what?
Further, as is pointed out, why should we underwrite the debt but the profit goes to the investors?
I did not take on debt because I felt it imprudent. Why should I pay for your debts? Phil, I agree with what you say and regulation is needed in a financial world that right now lacks a lot of it. However, you have to deal with the problem at hand which is stabilizing the economy. And as far as who's going to buy the US debt... The world so far hasn't show any significat trend that it is not willing to buy what the US government has offered even as the dollar has gotten a lot weaker.
A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials. ~Chinese Proverb
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ~Jon Hammond
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,428 Likes: 1
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,428 Likes: 1 |
It's just a step in the cycle...
1. Deflation
2. Inflation
3. Deflation
4. Hyperinflation
5. War
6. Economy reset
The derivatives trillions will never unravel.
Enjoy the market upside while you can. It won't last.
Life is Good!
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,853
veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Aug 2008
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Giving this Administration "sweeping new powers" is like giving Jeffrey Dahmer a new set of carving knives. You are quite right, stereoman, but it will happen, nevertheless. _____________
Last edited by numan; 09/19/08 07:40 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,841
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Joined: Sep 2007
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It's incumbent upon all political and financial journalists at this moment to remind Americans that every dollar spent in a bailout goes on our tab to the Chinese and other foreign investors. Somebody has to pay them back some day. One of the great crimes of misinformation in the George W. Bush era is that neither the cost of wars nor the cost of these bailouts gets counted on the official national deficit number. It's as if Enron and Lehmann Brothers accountants are working in the Office of Management and Budget. Who knows? Maybe they are. This is what we get for having a president with an MBA. From: www.mediamatters.org/altercation
"I believe very deeply that compassion is the route not only for the evolution of the full human being, but for the very survival of the human race." —The Dalai Lama
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