One more post: It blows my mind that no one seems interested in the fact that what we're talking about is at best, shallow and inaccurate judgmentalism, and at worst, prejudice.
The purpose of the thread has never been to endorse what you rightly criticise. I am puzzled to to try to understand whether we should avoid talking about things with which we disagree? I have tried to make clear, I am not supporting appearance based discrimination. I think it is wrong and wish it would disappear. But in my (possibly incorrect) opinion, disappearance of such things is not facilitated by avoiding discussion of the topic.
We have had several extended discussions that have more or less directly asserted misogyny as a fundamental social problem. We have had discussions about the nature and extent of sexism. We have had discussion about the origin and motivation if the beauty industry.
In all of those discussions there has been a common undercurrent identifying the reprehensible motives and behavior of large segments of society. Contained within that judgement, IMO, has been a fundamental opposition to consideration of the idea that
any of the phenomena that we both deplore has an origin that flows naturally, to some degree, from humanity and society as a whole.
For me, it is a fairly important question as to whether some of these problems are partly a result of human nature... or alternatively primarily a result of sinister conspiracies by consciously ill intentioned individuals.
By the way,
when I say that "something may flow naturally from human nature and society", that statement should not be construed as tacit acceptance of the phenomena any more that I would tacitly accept violence and aggression... which I also consider natural to the human animal.
That is, it's wrong. Wrong. It's always been wrong. It's wrong whether applied to men or women, it's just that this particular stick happens to be used against women more than men.
Mostly I agree. But, if one considers slavery for example... that was not considered "wrong" 1000 years ago. And likewise, societies views on this present topic have changed considerably over time. And again, IMO this is a fundamental point. When one says that "
It's always been wrong. it implies that people for thousands of years have been willfully, knowingly evil.
"doctors" who bled their patients to cure them were not willfully evil, they were ignorant. Surely there is a difference. IMO it is completely counterproductive to apply general purpose judgementalism in an attempt to cure something that I sincerely agree is a serious and significant problem.
And to suggest that we should go along with it rather than try to work and/or educate out of it is even more wrong.
I was not aware that anyone on this thread, and myself most especially ever made any such suggestion. Could provide a quote in support of the comment... or clarify to whom it refers.
Ardy
