Capitol Hill Blue Forums We shall overcome

helluva big hill to overcome, but the battle goes on, Phil.

Gay rights protesters disrupt Sunday service


More Brilliance from our citizens...

I find the behavior of this particular group despicable. There are nuts in every community. But it is certainly easier to paint all by the actions of a few.

The mayor of SF stood up and said EXACTLY what needed to be said. He said homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals - the idea that that would drive people away from supporting gay marriage does not reflect poorly on homosexuals but rather the people who would be driven away at the thought of equality.

The lesbian couple did NOT invite the children from the charter school to their wedding. It was a surprise for their teacher. The children and their parents arranged the whole thing (there were even two children unable to attend because their parents did not sign the permission slip). The "Yes on 8" campaign then used the video of these children at the wedding - repeatedly - AGAINST THE PARENTS WISHES for their smear campaign full of lies.

Again, if the images of happy children celebrating their teacher getting married turns people against gays having equal rights, the problem is from the people already predisposed to think of gays as lesser citizens.

Jeffro,

I'm sure that you know that it's not what you do but how you do it. For 3 months I watched the same video clip of SF mayor saying "Wether you like it or not" to gay marriage, something that doesn't play well. I'm sure his heart was in the right place, but his words did a lot of damage.

As far as the school class, the supporters of "no on 8" (which I'm sure that most of them that organized the thing were) should have been a bit brighter and not make it an organized thing as a class because anyone could have seen the "yes on 8" supporters use it.

I see it that if you give people the right to vote on an issue, they have to vote how they see fit according to their values. If this is a civil rights issue the courts should deal with it. Why didn't the "no on 8" people manage to get the measure off the balot if it is unconstitutional?

The Court refused to hear the issue prior to the election which is the right decision. The court always refuses to decide cases of this sort prior to a vote.

Kap, they tried. The California Supreme Court dismissed the petitions as premature. In order to have a "Case in controversy" there has to be an existing harm. Until Prop 8 passed, there was no harm. Now that it exists, I suspect that the Cal Supreme Court will strike it down as a "revision" not an amendment to the Constitution. Legally, I think the No on 8 people are correct. Unfortunately, it will once again create the perception that "activist courts" are "forcing" the issue onto the populace, when in fact it is the activist religionists that are doing so.

I disagree, Kap.
My guess is these parents think it is important for their children to grow up knowing that the union between two people in love regardless of their gender is normal and beautiful.

I understand what you're saying...that they then had it used against them but I still think the bigger lesson for their children was more important.
I think the "no on 8" folks need to pull the facts out on this and use it back at them. Big time.

I do know that it is how you do it, and I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but we are not discussing an opinion, we are discussing taking away the rights of a segment of the population. Trust me, gay marriage is not the issue I ever thought I would be so outraged about, but from where I stand "Like it or not" resonated with me.

As for the teacher. The timing was unfortunate, but you know what? I believe we had the right to get married when that occurred. It was legal and had that teacher waited until after the vote, I am sure she knew she may not get the chance again. The children and their parents wanted to express their appreciation and love for their teacher and this was her "under the wire" wedding day. Who called the press? Don't know. Could it have been "Yes on 8" people? Again, I don't know. If you spend your life - scratch that, if I spend my life wondering if something I do could be used against me by homophobes, I wouldn't ever leave my apartment. I prefer to live my life.

I am really not comfortable with the idea of playing nice and watching my step to be considered an equal member of society. I'm 46 years old and, quite frankly, it's getting really old.

Prop 22 was put on the ballot years ago, voted on and it wasn't until years later that the Supremes said it was unconstitutional. I honestly don't know why Prop 8 couldn't be withdrawn from the ballot, perhaps Phil could help me out since I've had the very same question. We managed to get the language changed from "protection of marriage" to "elimination of rights" but clearly that wasn't strong enough.

Maybe it should have said "Gays will officially be declared second class citizens". But judging from what I've heard lately, that may have won in a landslide.

I am frankly very tired of people, either gay or straight, telling us how we should have handled this issue. If you did not participate before election day by contributing or making calls or at least sending emails or walking precincts, I say you had your chance and should now just shut the f up.

Sorry it is said so bluntly, but I am pissed. It is easy to tell us what we should do, in fact it has been going on for many years. We hear it from every corner.

I am with Jeffro on this -- I will not worry how you take what I do, it is my/our life. If you don't like it, turn your head and go live your own.

Do I want your support for my/our rights? You are damned right I do, but that is your duty as a citizen, not a gift for my/our good behavior.

"Yes on 8" used this unfortunately timed event for all it was worth. The 'Yes on 8' commercials were flooded with children saying things like "I learned that a man can marry another man The reality is, if same sex marriage is legal (as it was when the ads were running)then a man CAN marry another man. Is it better to lie to the kiddies? This same little girl then says "one day I can marry a Princess" so something tells me that this parent is going to have this conversation somewhere down the road anyway

Ironically, these ads prompted two children of women I work with to ask their parents about gay marriage - in both cases, the children were confused about why anyone would try to stop people from getting married. And in one case, "why would we even vote for that?"

From the mouths of babes, eh? Honestly, kids don't care. I have six nieces and nephews and none of them give a damn about who I date as long as they get their Christmas money.

Jeffro, thanks for that... a couple of pages ago I posted a link that suggested the split in voters was not so much ethnic or racial, but generational. I'd be interested to hear from the California residents whether they think that's true, and if so, what might be done about it.